Covert narcissism (NPD) is the hardest form of narcissistic abuse to identify — and the most damaging.

Have you ever walked away from a conversation feeling like you did something wrong — even though you can't quite explain what?

In this episode, Dr. Kerry McAvoy sits down with Dr. Anthony Mazzella (The Narcissism Decoder) to break down exactly how covert narcissists use guilt and victimhood to keep you trapped.

PODCAST EXTRA EXCLUSIVE SEGMENT

Find the exclusive second segment and weekly newsletter here: https://substack.com/@breakingfreenarcabuse

🔹 Think you might already be in one of these relationships? Dr. Mazzella and Dr. Kerry walk you through the internal warning signs — including the FOG of Fear, Obligation, and Guilt.

DR. ANTHONY MAZZELLA is a psychotherapist & psychoanalyst, educator, and podcaster who conducts research and lectures across the country. While his focus with his patients is psychodynamic in nature, his main goals are to build a trusting relationship and help each patient reduce the frequency and intensity of their emotional painful thoughts and suffering. He helps his patients overcome both acute and long-standing problems that may be more imbedded in their personality.

FOLLOW DR. MAZZELLA

• Website
• YouTube
• The Narcissism Decoder Podcast

Submit your question to be answered on air here!

Resources

• ReclaimYou: Dr. Kerry's AI-powered coaching app
• The Complete Recovery Collection: Narcissistic abuse resources
• First Steps to Leaving: Online self-paced digital course
• Toxic-Free Relationship Club: Live coaching & community support

Follow Dr. Kerry!

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Kerry Kerr McAvoy, Ph.D, a retired psychologist & author, is an expert on cultivating healthy relationships and deconstructing narcissism.

As an Amazon affiliate, commission is earned from qualifying purchases.

This podcast/video is for educational purposes only. It does not constitute therapy, counseling, or professional mental health advice. If you are in crisis, please call 911 or your local emergency number.

Why does the person who calls out a narcissist end up looking like the unhinged one?

A Facebook follower writes in, "Why does the person recognizing and confronting the narcissistic behavior often appear unhinged to everyone else?" In this episode, Dr. Kerry explains why narcissists always appear calm and credible while their victims come across as unstable.

Submit Your Question

If you'd like Dr. Kerry to answer your question on air, email it to clients@kerrymcavoyphd.com or use this link.

Submit your question to be answered on air here!

Resources

• ReclaimYou: Dr. Kerry's AI-powered coaching app
• The Complete Recovery Collection: Narcissistic abuse resources
• First Steps to Leaving: Online self-paced digital course
• Toxic-Free Relationship Club: Live coaching & community support

Follow Dr. Kerry!

• Youtube
• Instagram
• TikTok
• Facebook

Kerry Kerr McAvoy, Ph.D, a retired psychologist & author, is an expert on cultivating healthy relationships and deconstructing narcissism.

As an Amazon affiliate, commission is earned from qualifying purchases.

This podcast/video is for educational purposes only. It does not constitute therapy, counseling, or professional mental health advice. If you are in crisis, please call 911 or your local emergency number.

Are you walking into your divorce expecting the court to finally see the truth about your narcissistic ex?

This week, divorce attorney Hannah Bell Hembree joins Dr. Kerry to pull back the curtain on what really happens in the courtroom when you're leaving a narcissist. With nearly two decades of legal experience and her own custody battle behind her, Hannah shares the hard truths every survivor needs to hear before they file.

PODCAST EXTRA EXCLUSIVE SEGMENT

Find the exclusive second segment and weekly newsletter here.

🔹 Is the court biased against men — or women? In this members-only bonus, Hannah Bell Hembree gives her candid, real-world take on courtroom bias. Her answer may surprise you.

👉 Get immediate access to this extended interview

MORE ABOUT HANNAH BELL HEMBREE

Podcast: Not Saving It for Later

Community & Free Divorce Prep Course

Instagram: @HannahHembreeBell

HANNAH BELL HEMBREE is a divorce attorney based in Austin, Texas, where she leads a firm of nearly 50 people dedicated to helping marriages end well. She is also the founder of the My Confident Life Circle, an online community supporting women through divorce and beyond, and the host of the new podcast Not Saving It for Later. Drawing on her own experience navigating divorce and two custody modifications, Hannah equips women with the practical strategies and mindset shifts they need to protect their kids, their money, and their sanity.

Submit your question to be answered on air here!

Resources

• ReclaimYou: Dr. Kerry's AI-powered coaching app
• The Complete Recovery Collection: Narcissistic abuse resources
• First Steps to Leaving: Online self-paced digital course
• Toxic-Free Relationship Club: Live coaching & community support

Follow Dr. Kerry!

• Youtube
• Instagram
• TikTok
• Facebook

Kerry Kerr McAvoy, Ph.D, a retired psychologist & author, is an expert on cultivating healthy relationships and deconstructing narcissism.

As an Amazon affiliate, commission is earned from qualifying purchases.

This podcast/video is for educational purposes only. It does not constitute therapy, counseling, or professional mental health advice. If you are in crisis, please call 911 or your local emergency number.

My best friend divorced her narcissistic ex two months ago — but she keeps talking to him, then ignoring him, then reaching out again. She says she wants to move on, but she can't seem to break the cycle.

In this episode, Dr. Kerry explains why leaving a narcissist doesn't automatically break the trauma bond — and what's really driving the painful push-pull your friend can't escape. Learn how to support someone you love through this without shaming, lecturing, or pushing them further away.

Submit Your Question

If you'd like Dr. Kerry to answer your question on air, email it to clients@kerrymcavoyphd.com or use the link in the show notes.

Submit your question to be answered on air here!

Resources

• ReclaimYou: Dr. Kerry's AI-powered coaching app
• The Complete Recovery Collection: Narcissistic abuse resources
• First Steps to Leaving: Online self-paced digital course
• Toxic-Free Relationship Club: Live coaching & community support

Follow Dr. Kerry!

• Youtube
• Instagram
• TikTok
• Facebook

Kerry Kerr McAvoy, Ph.D, a retired psychologist & author, is an expert on cultivating healthy relationships and deconstructing narcissism.

As an Amazon affiliate, commission is earned from qualifying purchases.

This podcast/video is for educational purposes only. It does not constitute therapy, counseling, or professional mental health advice. If you are in crisis, please call 911 or your local emergency number.

Have you ever tried to leave—and found yourself walking right back in?

This week, Dr. Robin Stern joins Dr. Kerry to reveal the two psychological forces that make gaslighting so impossible to escape. Plus—why even smart, self-aware people lose their grip on their own reality when they're being manipulated by someone they love.

Previous Interviews with Dr. Stern

What's wrong with me? The Power of Gaslighting to Confuse and Control: Interview with Dr. Robin Stern

Breaking Chains: Dr. Kerry McAvoy's Triumph Over Marital Gaslighting and Narcissism

PODCAST EXTRA EXCLUSIVE SEGMENT

Find the exclusive second segment and weekly newsletter here.

MORE ABOUT THE PODCAST EXTRA INTERVIEW

🔹 Dr. Stern shares the shift that breaks the cycle for good: "Don't allow somebody to matter more than you matter." In this members-only bonus, Dr. Stern and Dr. Kerry unpack how to stay open and connected in relationships without surrendering yourself in the process.

👉 Get immediate access to this extended interview

DR. STERN'S BOOKS

• The Gaslight Effect: How to Spot and Survive the Hidden Manipulation Others Use to Control Your Life: https://amzn.to/4b50aRu

• The Gaslight Effect Recovery Guide: https://amzn.to/40qzc0B

MORE ABOUT DR. ROBIN STERN

Dr. Robin Stern, Ph.D., is a licensed psychoanalyst, Co-Founder and Senior Advisor to the Director of the Yale Center for Emotional Intelligence, and one of the world's leading authorities on gaslighting. She is the author of The Gaslight Effect and host of The Gaslight Effect Podcast.

Website: robinstern.com

Submit your question to be answered on air here!

Break free from narcissistic abuse with ReclaimYou. The app that's like having Dr. Kerry as your personal coach in your pocket 24/7. Get personalized support, healing exercises, and expert guidance whenever you need it. Join the waitlist now and be first to reclaim your life at studio.com/drkerry

Resources

• ReclaimYou: Dr. Kerry's AI-powered coaching app
• The Complete Recovery Collection: Narcissistic abuse resources
• First Steps to Leaving: Online self-paced digital course
• Toxic-Free Relationship Club: Live coaching & community support

Follow Dr. Kerry!

• Youtube
• Instagram
• TikTok
• Facebook

Kerry Kerr McAvoy, Ph.D, a retired psychologist & author, is an expert on cultivating healthy relationships and deconstructing narcissism.

As an Amazon affiliate, commission is earned from qualifying purchases.

This podcast/video is for educational purposes only. It does not constitute therapy, counseling, or professional mental health advice. If you are in crisis, please call 911 or your local emergency number.

Why does someone who divorces a narcissist keep going back to them?

A listener writes in, “My best friend divorced her narcissistic ex two months ago — but she keeps talking to him, then ignoring him, then reaching out again. She says she wants to move on, but she can't seem to break the cycle.”

In this episode, Dr. Kerry explains why leaving a narcissist doesn't automatically break the trauma bond and why survivors struggle to escape.

Submit Your Question

If you'd like Dr. Kerry to answer your question on air, email it to clients@kerrymcavoyphd.com or use this link.

Follow on Apple

Follow on Spotify

Submit your question to be answered on air here!

Resources

• ReclaimYou: Dr. Kerry's AI-powered coaching app
• The Complete Recovery Collection: Narcissistic abuse resources
• First Steps to Leaving: Online self-paced digital course
• Toxic-Free Relationship Club: Live coaching & community support

Follow Dr. Kerry!

• Youtube
• Instagram
• TikTok
• Facebook

Kerry Kerr McAvoy, Ph.D, a retired psychologist & author, is an expert on cultivating healthy relationships and deconstructing narcissism.

As an Amazon affiliate, commission is earned from qualifying purchases.

This podcast/video is for educational purposes only. It does not constitute therapy, counseling, or professional mental health advice. If you are in crisis, please call 911 or your local emergency number.

Have you ever felt completely drained after spending time with certain people in your life?

This week, Coach Dan Ratner joins Dr. Kerry to explore the hidden world of emotional vampires: the 12 types of energy-draining people we all have in our lives and why narcissists are the most dangerous of them all. Dan shares his powerful KEEPER framework for identifying who truly deserves a place in your life.

PODCAST EXTRA EXCLUSIVE SEGMENT

Find the exclusive second segment and weekly newsletter here: https://substack.com/@breakingfreenarcabuse

MORE ABOUT THE PODCAST EXTRA INTERVIEW

🔹 Already know you have an emotional vampire in your life? Here's what to do next.

Coach Dan breaks down practical strategies for managing toxic people you can't simply cut out — from family members to coworkers — and how to protect your emotional energy without blowing everything up.

DANIEL RATNER is a relationship coach, speaker, and author helping people build healthier connections by recognizing draining patterns and setting stronger boundaries. A former entrepreneur turned personal growth expert, he is the author of Infinite Marriage and The Ten Secrets to a Passionate Marriage, with his upcoming book, Emotional Vampires, teaching readers how to protect their happiness from toxic people. Through his coaching, books, and public talks, Daniel provides clear, practical tools for improving self-esteem, cultivating "keepers," and creating relationships that fuel joy.

GET HIS BOOK
Emotional Vampires: How to Protect Your Happiness from People Who Will Suck You Dry

FOLLOW COACH RATNER
• Website
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• YouTube
• TikTok

Submit your question to be answered on air here!

Break free from narcissistic abuse with ReclaimYou. The app that's like having Dr. Kerry as your personal coach in your pocket 24/7. Get personalized support, healing exercises, and expert guidance whenever you need it. Join the waitlist now and be first to reclaim your life at studio.com/drkerry

Resources

• ReclaimYou: Dr. Kerry's AI-powered coaching app
• The Complete Recovery Collection: Narcissistic abuse resources
• First Steps to Leaving: Online self-paced digital course
• Toxic-Free Relationship Club: Live coaching & community support

Follow Dr. Kerry!

• Youtube
• Instagram
• TikTok
• Facebook

Kerry Kerr McAvoy, Ph.D, a retired psychologist & author, is an expert on cultivating healthy relationships and deconstructing narcissism.

As an Amazon affiliate, commission is earned from qualifying purchases.

This podcast/video is for educational purposes only. It does not constitute therapy, counseling, or professional mental health advice. If you are in crisis, please call 911 or your local emergency number.

Take the Toxic or Troubled? Quiz and get specialized help for your specific situation. https://kerrymcavoyphd.fillout.com/toxic-troubled-survey

My 62-year-old narcissistic brother moved in with my 86-year-old mother "temporarily" after his divorce six years ago. Now she's suffocating, the rest of the family stays away, and she won't let anyone intervene.

In this episode, Dr. Kerry explains why some mothers choose guilt over peace — and what to do when someone refuses to set healthy relationship limits for themselves. Learn how to protect your own nervous system while supporting a parent who is trapped by fear, obligation, and guilt.

Submit Your Question

If you'd like Dr. Kerry to answer your question on air, email it to clients@kerrymcavoyphd.com or use this link.

Follow on Apple

Follow on Spotify

Submit your question to be answered on air here!

Break free from narcissistic abuse with ReclaimYou. The app that's like having Dr. Kerry as your personal coach in your pocket 24/7. Get personalized support, healing exercises, and expert guidance whenever you need it. Join the waitlist now and be first to reclaim your life at studio.com/drkerry

Resources

• ReclaimYou: Dr. Kerry's AI-powered coaching app
• The Complete Recovery Collection: Narcissistic abuse resources
• First Steps to Leaving: Online self-paced digital course
• Toxic-Free Relationship Club: Live coaching & community support

Follow Dr. Kerry!

• Youtube
• Instagram
• TikTok
• Facebook

Kerry Kerr McAvoy, Ph.D, a retired psychologist & author, is an expert on cultivating healthy relationships and deconstructing narcissism.

As an Amazon affiliate, commission is earned from qualifying purchases.

This podcast/video is for educational purposes only. It does not constitute therapy, counseling, or professional mental health advice. If you are in crisis, please call 911 or your local emergency number.