What does it actually take to build something from nothing?

Not in theory — but in reality.

In this episode of Catch The Upswing, Jessica Espinoza speaks with Jana Degrott and Gosia Kramer about what it really means to take risks, move through doubt, and build something when there is no clear path — and no external validation.

From navigating self-doubt and the fear of judgment to making bold decisions — like selling your house to start a business — this conversation goes beyond inspiration and into the lived reality of entrepreneurship.

Jana reflects on identity, confidence, and the internal barriers that hold people back, while Gosia shares what it looks like to build from nothing — facing skepticism, financial pressure, and the day-to-day realities of turning an idea into something real.

This is a conversation about building — and what it actually demands.

🎙️ In this episode, we explore:

• Why fear of judgment is one of the biggest barriers to starting• The difference between inspiration and actually taking action• How self-doubt shapes decisions — and how to move beyond it• What it really looks like to build something from nothing• Taking financial and personal risks as a founder• The reality of cash flow and long-term vision• Why most people don’t start — and what it takes to do it anyway• Finding the right people — and thinking beyond your immediate environment

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🔗 Check out Jana & Gosia’s work:

Jana Degrott LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jana-degrott-b15646114/Instagram: @janadegrott

Gosia Kramer LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gosia-kramer-08a29ba0/Instagram: @gosiakramer

⏱️ Chapters:

00:00 Episode Start

00:01 Intro

01:20 Welcome Jana Degrott & Gosia Kramer

03:10 “Mini Jana” — Growing Up Without Confidence

07:30 The Fear of Judgment (And Why It Holds People Back)

12:40 “People Don’t Really Care” — The Mindset Shift

16:30 From Self-Doubt to Taking Action

21:10 Selling a House to Start a Business

26:00 “Nobody Believed in It”

30:40 Building From Nothing — No Windows, No Electricity

35:20 When Things Go Wrong: Failure & Hard Lessons

40:10 Cash Flow, Pressure, and Founder Reality

45:30 Why Inspiration Is Not Enough

49:20 Finding the Right People (And Leaving the Wrong Ones)

54:10 Building Something That Doesn’t Exist Yet

58:30 What It Really Takes to Keep Going

1:02:00 Final Reflections

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📺 Watch more episodes:

Catch The Upswing is a business and leadership podcast exploring how people build, lead, and navigate complexity in a rapidly changing world.

Subscribe for conversations with global leaders, entrepreneurs, and emerging voices shaping today’s economy.

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🔗 Follow & connect:

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@CatchTheUpswing
Instagram: https://instagram.com/CatchTheUpswing
TikTok: https://tiktok.com/@catchtheupswing

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#Entrepreneurship #Leadership #Founders #Startups #WomenInBusiness #Resilience #Mindset #CatchTheUpswing

What if we’ve been thinking about the economy the wrong way around?Most investment models are built to maximize returns.But what happens when the system itself is no longer aligned with the world we’re trying to build?In this episode of Catch The Upswing, Jessica Espinoza speaks with Jodi Smith — founder & fund manager of Matanataki — about rethinking capital from the ground up, and what it takes to build investment models in places where traditional approaches don’t work.After two decades in Hollywood, Jodi walked away and moved to Fiji, where a mission to protect coral reefs led her into finance. Today, she is investing with an innovative approach that connects businesses across sectors — from agriculture to tourism — to create impact at a landscape and seascape level.From local ownership to interconnected deal flow, this conversation explores what it really means to design capital for ecosystems, communities, and long-term resilience.This is a conversation about investing — and beyond.🎙️ In this episode, we explore:• Why the economy should be seen as a subset of the ecosystem• Why traditional investment approaches fail in frontier markets • How to design capital that works in nascent and frontier markets• What “interconnected deal flow” looks like in practice• Why local ownership and vision-setting are critical for long-term success• The risks of “solutions looking for problems” in global investment• How finance can be used as a tool to protect ecosystems• The reality of building new models — and the leadership it requires—🔗 Check out Jodi’s work:Jodi Smith (LinkedIn)https://www.linkedin.com/in/jodi-smith/Matanatakihttps://www.matanataki.com/ —⏱️ Chapters:00:00 Episode Start00:01 Intro01:10 Welcome Jodi Smith02:30 Why Fiji’s Reefs Matter Globally06:45 From Hollywood to Walking Away10:30 The Moment Finance Became the Tool16:20 Why Traditional Investment Models Don’t Work Here22:40 Building an Ecosystem, Not Just a Portfolio29:10 Who Owns the Future?35:30 “Let Us Solve Our Problems”41:20 Building Something That Doesn’t Exist Yet46:30 Why It Can Feel So Lonely50:10 “The Economy Is a Subset of the Ecosystem”52:00 What This Means Going Forward—📺 Watch more episodes:Catch The Upswing is a business and leadership podcast exploring how people build, lead, and navigate complexity in a rapidly changing world.

Subscribe for conversations with global leaders, entrepreneurs, and emerging voices shaping today’s economy.—🔗 Follow & connect:YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@CatchTheUpswingInstagram: https://instagram.com/CatchTheUpswingTikTok: https://tiktok.com/@CatchTheUpswing—#ImpactInvesting #SustainableFinance #Leadership #ClimateFinance #SystemsChange #CatchTheUpswing

When things don’t go as planned, most people stop.But what does it actually take to keep going — when the path is uncertain, the pressure is real, and the outcome isn’t guaranteed?Resilience is not about never failing. It’s about what you do next.In this episode of Catch The Upswing, Jessica Espinoza speaks with Angie Madara — entrepreneur, mentor and investor — about what it really means to build, adapt, and move forward in uncertain environments.From navigating setbacks to building in emerging markets, Angie shares a grounded perspective on resilience, entrepreneurship, inclusive AI, and financial inclusion — and why success often depends less on certainty, and more on persistence.This conversation is about business — and beyond.🎙️ In this episode, we explore:

• What it really takes to keep going when things don’t go as planned
• How to respond to failure without letting it define you
• Why building often means moving forward without certainty
• What resilience looks like in practice — not just in theory
• The reality of building across markets — and the gaps in access to finance
• How innovation and inclusive AI can expand opportunity
• The mindset that helps you keep going when things get hard

🔗 Check out Angie’s work:Angie Madara (LinkedIn): https://www.linkedin.com/in/angiemadara/Athena Fund X: https://athenafundx.com/ ⏱️ Chapters:00:00 Episode Start00:01 Intro00:59 Welcome Angie Madara01:38 The $1.7 trillion credit gap03:18 “Entrepreneurship for most women is winging it”05:12 Her biggest failure06:35 The rookie mistakes that cost her money08:22 Learning never stops in entrepreneurship09:31 Resilience is not a trait10:43 What first-time founders should do differently13:01 Building Athena: from idea to reality16:22 AI, bias, and the future of credit19:07 “It’s not charity. It’s big business”25:35 98% repaid — so why didn’t it scale?26:26 We need a new game33:42 From empowerment to economic resilience39:23 The risk ahead: a growing credit gap43:26 How she stays hopeful44:04 “Hold yourself before you fail”49:00 Final thoughts📺 Watch more episodes:Catch The Upswing is a business and leadership podcast exploring how people build, lead, and navigate complexity in a rapidly changing world.

Subscribe for conversations with global leaders, entrepreneurs, and emerging voices shaping today’s economy.🔗 Follow & connect:YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@CatchTheUpswingInstagram: https://instagram.com/CatchTheUpswingTikTok: https://tiktok.com/@CatchTheUpswing#Leadership #Entrepreneurship #Resilience #FinancialInclusion #CatchTheUpswing