How do you handle a good client who becomes difficult? We discuss slow payment, unexpected image use, and how good communication skills are your most valuable asset. Jay describes an annual report/image library shoot for a publicly traded company where 30-day terms weren’t met; after 57 days and a new rush request for more images, he considers withholding delivery, worries about seeming unreasonable, and sends an email to say I’m mad as hell and I’m not gonna take it anymore if that’s ok?

Separately, Jay sees his interior photo used in a New York Times app ad despite being licensed only for unpaid marketing, debating whether to invoice, let it slide, or message the client tactfully and adjust future pricing, while weighing relationship value, leverage, and practical licensing.

"Not needing work is the ultimate negotiating position."

Find us:

Follow Jay on Instagram: @jayfram

Follow Bill on Instagram and Threads: @sawalich

Read Bill's newsletter, Art + Math: artandmath.substack.com

Jay's photography: jayfram.com

Bill's photography: sawalich.com

Write to us: jay@jayfram.com / bill@sawalich.com

Rate and review Continuous Agitation on Apple Podcasts — it actually helps.

This one’s a Part Two. If you haven’t listened to the last episode – “Let Them Eat Cake” – go do that first.

We pick up where we left off on the unlimited (sa)usage debate that started last episode, this time getting into the practical reality of how we bid jobs, when we mention usage/licensing, and when we don’t. And why the idealistic advice to "hold the line on licensing" doesn't work the way it used to.

In the second half Bill introduces a possible future: retainers. Shooting multiple times a year for a client for less than you might have charged before, but making more than you would for a one-off shoot. Win sorta win? Bill also uses the C-word and Jay doesn’t like it.

"You give the same bid three times and you don't get it, and you say to yourself: I don't think this costs that anymore."

Links:

@asksternrep — Andrea Stern’s (generally) great advice resource on Instagram

ASMP — American Society of Media Photographers

Mike Kelly, architecture photographer

Wonderful Machine — wonderfulmachine.com (commonly referenced resource for licensing and bidding)

Find us:

Follow Jay on Instagram: @jayfram

Follow Bill on Instagram and Threads: @sawalich

Read Bill's newsletter, Art + Math: artandmath.substack.com

Jay's photography: jayfram.com

Bill's photography: sawalich.com

Write to us: jay@jayfram.com / bill@sawalich.com

Rate and review Continuous Agitation on Apple Podcasts — it actually helps.

Is usage licensing dead? Not exactly. But the business it was built for doesn't really exist anymore. Print is all but gone. Social media now accounts for 80% (!) of ad spend in the US. Clients want the C word [rhymes with shmontent] by the dump truck load and there are ten times as many people willing to shoot it.

@asksternrep, a prominent photo rep with an excellent advice page, recently posted a follower’s question on her Instagram feed and the comment section got real spicy. Her advice to photographers losing bids over usage: be the best photographer you can be, and clients will pay for limited licensing. Will they though?

We try to unpack what actually happened to the commercial photography market, why work-for-hire is the real threat, and why "hold the line on licensing" is good advice for 5% of photographers all of the time, a few more photographers some of the time, but never all photographers all of the time.

"Telling photographers to do better is an outdated answer to a structural shift in the industry."

Links:

@asksternrep — Andrea Stern’s (generally) great advice resource on Instagram

ASMP — American Society of Media Photographers

Find us:

Follow Jay on Instagram: @jayfram

Follow Bill on Instagram and Threads: @sawalich

Read Bill's newsletter, Art + Math: artandmath.substack.com

Jay's photography: jayfram.com

Bill's photography: sawalich.com

Write to us: jay@jayfram.com / bill@sawalich.com

Rate and review Continuous Agitation on Apple Podcasts — it actually helps.