Dr. Janja Lalich and I talk about cults (we are both cult survivors and cult researchers) and we meander through these topics:

Why people join:

• The main thing that attracts people to cults is their own idealism.
• Most people are recruited into cults by friends and family.
• Making enemies and monsters on the outside is one way that cults keep people trapped.
• Isolation is a key way that cults and abusers control people; if you're a concerned person on the outside, keep the lines of communication open if you can.
• Don't argue about the cult or the leader; be a friend and include them in pleasant times to remind them of the possibilities on the outside of the cult or abusive relationship.

When people leave:

• Become their safe haven; don't challenge or lecture or criticize.
• Let them decompress; they've been through hell and need some time to think their own thoughts.
• Support them in learning more about how cults work so that they can see how they were taken in -- and how to avoid cultic control in the future.

About the supposed "power" and charisma of cult leaders:

• Cults are first and foremost abusive relationships, and you can leave them and heal.
• Charisma and power don't live inside leaders: we give it to them, and we can take it back.
• You can save money on transcendent cult-leader-inspired experiences and just take LSD instead (this is a joke, but not really).

Learn more about Janja's work and find support: https://www.lalichcenter.org/

Books mentioned in this episode:

Bounded Choice

Take Back Your Life

Escaping Utopia

Cults in Our Midst

See them at Bookshop: https://bookshop.org/lists/the-off-ramp-project