Every Founder hits a moment where the business is too big to be small but too small to be big. I call it the Stuck Zone. And what you do next determines everything.

On this episode of the Founderology — Built to Breakthrough podcast, I talk with Ryan Thorman, Founder and CEO of Bango and a contributor to the Founderology Growth Summit. Ryan and his friends started with a 300-square-foot açaí shop and have grown Bango into a better-for-you concept with 10 locations, two more in construction and a franchise model that is gaining serious momentum across the East Coast.

In this episode, Ryan held nothing back about the critical decisions he made at every stage of growth — and why he chose to grow slower when everyone said grow faster. What I share here is just the beginning of what Ryan shares in this fast-paced podcast.

Stop gunslinging and get clear

For the first several years, Ryan and his team had no plan. They were young, throwing things against the wall and running hard without direction. Then came the critical decision to stop and define what Bango was actually going to be. That single act of clarity changed every decision after it — and Ryan shares why he believes most Founders stay stuck because they never make this decision at all.

Who you hire — and how fast you fire

Ryan made the decision to bring in executives to help scale. It backfired — and he had to walk it back with his franchisees. Then he made a second critical decision: how to solve the problem without making the same mistake twice. The answer was right in front of him the entire time. If you're about to make your first big hire, listen to this before you sign the offer letter.

Grow Slow When Everyone Says Grow Fast

Everyone told Ryan to strike while the iron was hot. He made the critical decision to do the opposite — turning down markets, walking away from eager candidates and slowing down when the industry said speed up. His one non-negotiable before opening another location goes against everything the growth playbook tells you. If you are feeling pressure to move faster than you are ready, take a page out of Ryan's playbook on doing what is right, not fast.

Choose your shots instead of taking every shot

When I asked Ryan about the one decision that changed everything, he flipped the question. His answer was not about what went right — it was about the hundreds of thousands of dollars in mistakes they could have avoided. Ryan is a risk-taker by nature. The critical decision was learning the difference between taking every shot and choosing the right ones. Every Founder who are wired to move fast needs to hear how he reconciled that.

And that's not even half of it. Ryan goes deeper on franchising, culture, team and the decisions that separate Founders who scale from Founders who stall. But the two moments that will stay with you are these:

The moment where all the critical decisions paid off

Ryan describes a moment every Founder chases and almost no one talks about openly. It is the payoff of every critical decision on this list — and why no one could have prepared him for how it would feel. This part alone is worth pressing play.

The advice that starts with turning off your phone

Ryan closes with something deceptively simple. It is not a strategy and it is not a framework. It is the one thing every stuck Founder knows they should do but never actually does — and it is the shift that makes every critical decision after it possible.

If you are a Founder asking yourself, What do I do next? — this episode answers that question in so many real and meaningful ways.

Listen now wherever you get your podcasts and hear real insights from Founders who are building brands to breakthrough!

Kathleen Wood is the Founder of Kathleen Wood Partners, host of the Founderology —

On this episode of the Founderology — Built to Breakthrough podcast, I talk with Brandon Knudsen, Co-Founder and CEO of Ziggi's Coffee and a member of the inaugural class of Visionary Restaurant Founders recognized at the Founderology Growth Summit. Brandon and his wife Camrin have bootstrapped Ziggi's from a single coffee shop to more than 100 locations across 22 states, with 200 more in development — no private equity, no outside investors. Brandon held nothing back about what that journey actually cost them.

The licensing deal that failed before franchising even started

Before Ziggi's ever sold a franchise, Brandon tried licensing first. No fees. No royalties. Just handed over the playbook.

It fell apart.

The systems he and Camrin had been running for 12 years could not survive without them in the room. What Brandon did next — spending his own money to stress-test the model on his own managers before selling it to anyone else — is a strategic lesson in how to franchise the right way.
Every emerging franchisor needs to take this lesson and immediately apply it to their business.

Fifteen-hour days and the texts that never got returned

Brandon began franchising so he would not have to do everything himself as he and Camrin grew Ziggi's.
He then spent the next three years doing more of it than ever — driving to Realtor meetings, sitting through planning departments, showing up at construction sites and taking every call from every franchisee.

Until the day he realized he was the bottleneck.

The business was in the stuck zone – to big to be small and to small to be big.

The $400K COO he refused to hire
Brandon needed executive-level talent. The company was not in a position to take on six figures plus 10 percent of the business.

So, he found another way.

The fractional leaders he brought in did not just fill gaps — one of them changed the entire culture overnight without hiring a single new person.
If you are a Founder who thinks you cannot afford high-level strategy, Brandon's path will change your mind. Hear the critical decisions he made to bring affordable executive talent.

The one question he asks every struggling franchisee
When a franchisee calls Brandon and says they are struggling, he asks the same question every time.

The answer is always the same.

His philosophy on why you should never spend a dollar on marketing until the house is in order — and why the best-performing Ziggi's locations all have one thing in common — goes against everything the industry tells you.

The data backs him up. You know you want to know this critical question.

The advice that will hit you harder than you expect
Brandon closes with something personal — about the stores that keep him up at night, the success he forgets to celebrate and the one thing every Founder needs to hear when they are in the middle of the grind (literal in Brandon's case).

It is simple. It is real. If you are deep in the Stuck Zone right now, it might be exactly what you need.
If you are a Founder asking yourself, "What do I do next?" this episode answers that question in so many real and meaningful ways.

Listen now wherever you get your podcasts and hear real insights and real solutions from Founders who are building brands to breakthrough. This is the community you have been looking for to grow your business!

Every Founder hits a moment where the business is too big to be small but too small to be big. I call it the stuck zone. And what you do next determines everything.

On this episode of the Founderology — Built to Breakthrough podcast, I talk with Jeff Perera, co-Founder of Jeff's Bagel Run and a member of the inaugural class of Visionary Restaurant Founders recognized at the Founderology Growth Summit. Jeff and I discussed the critical decisions that took him from a garage operation to nearly 30 locations and more opening weekly — and he held nothing back.

The Meeting He Said No to for Four Months

Someone kept knocking on Jeff's door with an opportunity that could change everything. He refused the meeting. Every single week for four months. Then a personal loss shifted his perspective, and he and his wife Danielle finally said yes. What happened in that room — and the gut-check that followed — is something every Founder who has ever been approached by a potential partner needs to hear.

The Title He Didn't Take

Most Founders would have demanded the CEO title. Jeff made a different call, and his reasoning reveals a level of self-awareness that separates Founders who scale from Founders who stall. This part of our conversation alone is worth pressing play.

Giving Away the Biggest Piece

Jeff and Danielle gave up a significant portion of the business they built with their own hands, blood, sweat and tears. How they reconciled that decision — and how Jeff reframes what "your piece of the pie" actually means at scale — will challenge every Founder who believes that holding on tight is the safest move.

The Hire That Changed Everything

The first two people Jeff brought on after forming his franchise company were not restaurant operators. They were software engineers. That decision continues to be questioned, however today it stands as one of the biggest competitive advantages in the brand. Jeff explains why, and how his logic applies far beyond bagels.

Why They Award Franchises and Never Sell Them

One word – AWARD and it creates a competitive difference. Jeff walks through how he evaluates alignment over ambition, and why saying no to eager candidates protects the long-term health of everything he has built. If you are scaling through franchising or partnerships of any kind, this is essential listening.

The Advice That Will Stop You in Your Tracks

Jeff closes with a snowstorm story and a piece of advice so simple it almost sounds too easy. But it is the exact shift every stuck Founder needs to make — and it is the opposite of what most people expect.

If you are a Founder asking yourself, "What do I do next?" This episode answers that question in so many real and meaningful ways.

Listen now wherever you get your podcasts and hear real insights from Founders who are building brands to break through!

Kathleen Wood is the Founder of Kathleen Wood Partners, host of the Founderology — Built to Breakthrough podcast and co-host of the Founderology Growth Summit.