In 2003, Steve Jobs said: “Some people have a problem with open source software. We think it’s great.” It wasn’t just talk. Apple would go on to contribute LLVM and WebKit, two projects that became influential far beyond Apple’s own platforms. WebKit even served as the foundation for Google Chrome. So why doesn’t anyone think of Apple as an open source company?

That question turns out to have an intriguing answer. The ideas behind free and open source software emerged from decades of argument about who owns code, who controls it, and what developers owe each other – debates that predate personal computers entirely. Apple and Microsoft came of age during those debates and drew opposite conclusions.

In this episode, we trace that history from the earliest days of software licensing to the present. We consider how Apple's culture of secrecy often sits uneasily alongside its open source ambitions. And we explore why some Apple projects, like WebKit and LLVM, genuinely escaped the Apple ecosystem while others, like Swift and Darwin, never did.

Special Guest: Martin Algesten, creator of the Rust libraries ureq and str0m.

LINKS

LLVM.org

Swift.org

WebKit.org

Apple’s Open Source website

The XKCD cartoon Charlie mentions

International Criminal Court Sanctions

Martin’s GitHub page

Charlie’s website

Graham’s strength training app

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