I sat down with a founder who almost lost his company twice… and still built one of Indonesia’s biggest e-commerce enablers.

Brian Marshal took SIRCLO from a Shopify-style startup to powering major brands across TikTok Shop, marketplaces, live commerce and fulfillment… all while surviving the startup crash, failed fundraising rounds and the tech winter.

We spoke about profitability, AI agents, startup governance, IPO readiness, scaling outside Jakarta, and why most Southeast Asian startups got growth completely wrong.

IN THIS EPISODE

00:00 | Why SIRCLO Almost Died Twice

01:38 | The Shopify Idea That Failed in Indonesia

02:25 | Why Brands Need More Than Just a Storefront

04:06 | The Brutal Reality of Startup Fundraising

06:30 | How SIRCLO Finally Became Profitable

07:53 | Preparing SIRCLO for a Possible IPO

11:37 | The Governance Mistakes Startups Keep Making

15:24 | Why Good Tech Infrastructure Pays Off

17:10 | How SIRCLO Is Using AI Agents Internally

19:38 | Scaling E-Commerce Without Owning Warehouses

22:05 | How TikTok Changed E-Commerce in Indonesia

23:31 | Why Catalog Commerce Is Dying

24:00 | Building for TikTok, Live Selling & Creators

25:07 | Why Sales and Marketing Are Merging

26:05 | The Future of Live Commerce in Southeast Asia

26:19 | Will Indonesia Become Like China’s E-Commerce Market?

27:23 | Balancing Profitability and Innovation

28:22 | Why Innovation Failed at SIRCLO Earlier

32:30 | Why Southeast Asian Tech IPOs Struggle

35:10 | Is Indonesia Still a Great Startup Market?

36:36 | Brian’s Vision for SIRCLO’s Next Chapter

Brian Marshal

Brian Marshal is the Founder and CEO of SIRCLO, a leading Southeast Asian e-commerce enabler that helps brands sell online across their own web stores and platforms like TikTok and Shopee. What began as a simple website-builder idea in 2013 has grown under his leadership into an integrated solution powering millions of monthly orders. Over the past decade, Brian has guided the company through organic and inorganic growth, shifting market conditions, and a steady push toward profitability, rooted in a commitment to resilience and integrity.

His personal journey bridges Indonesia and Singapore, built on a background in computer science and data analytics alongside a firm belief in technology's power to unlock new opportunities. Beyond SIRCLO, Brian is deeply committed to nurturing Indonesia’s future leaders through his active involvement in the Informatics and AI Olympiad communities, as well as the McKinsey Young Leaders for Indonesia program.

Rahul Thayyalamkandy

Director of Comms & Community, Vertex Ventures SEA & India

Rahul Thayyalamkandy joined the SEA/India team as the Director of Communication & Community in 2024 and is based in Singapore.

Before joining Vertex, Rahul served as a Product Manager at BLOCK71, an incubator and joint venture of NUS Enterprise and Singtel Innov8, where he developed scalable services for portfolio startups and designed mentorship programs. He also gained experience as a Summer Associate at Cocoon Capital, working with the Managing Partner on investment deals.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/rahulthayyalamkandy/

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Vertex Ventures Southeast Asia & India is a pioneer in investing in tech start-ups in this region and has helped to build a number of unicorns. In this podcast, we seek to share and uncover the Hard Truth - raw, unfiltered insights and venture capital knowledge from across Southeast Asia and India. Tune in to learn from leading founders, innovators, venture capitalists, and industry experts in the region and gain industry insights from those in the know.

If you like what you hear, please follow or subscribe to the show so you don’t miss out on any of our upcoming discussions.

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Follow us to get notified whenever new episodes are shared.

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For more information, please visit: https://www.vertexventures.sg

#hardtruthsbyvertexventures #vertexventures #entrepreneurship #startups #venturecapital #vc #podcast #businessleaders

He had one formula for building trust in fintech: promises kept divided by promises made.

Anup Agrawal spent years at LazyPay watching how India actually pays — and what he saw was striking. 85% of consumer transactions ran on UPI. Credit cards existed, but they weren't built for the way India's new generation spends. So he built Kiwi: a credit card designed as a delightful UPI experience, with credit rails underneath and instant cashback on top.

In this conversation with Rahul, Anup unpacks the product decisions behind Kiwi — including a data point that surprises most fintech insiders (80% of Kiwi spends are offline, the exact opposite of the industry norm), a product failure that reshaped their rewards design (users who made their first transaction at a fuel station churned when they got no rewards), and two mental models he uses to make every product decision: the Trust Formula and the Ginger Product rule. He also makes a sharp case for why retention has to come before growth — every time.

Timestamps

00:00 | From LazyPay Data to the UPI Credit Idea

03:43 | What Kiwi Actually Is — "A Delightful UPI Experience"

05:52 | Why Gen-Z UPI Users Need Credit (The Utility Ladder)

06:43 | Virtual vs Physical Cards — and the Offline Stat That Flips the Industry

09:34 | Who Kiwi Is For — Credit-Invisible Affluents, Not Thin-File Poor

10:59 | Retention First: Why Kiwi Doesn't Push Growth Until It's Ready

12:25 | The Fintech-Bank Division of Labour

14:35 | The Trust Formula: Promises Kept ÷ Promises Made

17:35 | When Product Fails: The Fuel Attrition Story

19:31 | Cashback vs Points — Why Kiwi Bets Against Breakage

20:59 | Competing With Cred and PhonePe: Focus Over Distribution

23:07 | The Ginger Product Rule + Kiwi's Three Dimensions

25:53 | The 2035 Vision — Imagine the Taj Mahal Before It's Built

About Anup Agrawal

Anup Agrawal is the founder of Kiwi, a fintech company building credit card products designed for India's UPI-native generation. Before Kiwi, he led product and growth at LazyPay, where consumer behaviour data — specifically the 85% UPI dominance in Indian transactions — sparked the founding insight. Kiwi targets "credit-invisible affluents": users with income but limited formal credit history, who are well-served by UPI but underserved by traditional credit products.

Anup on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/anup-agrawal-a2915b11

Kiwi website: https://gokiwi.in/

Rahul Thayyalamkandy

Director of Comms & Community, Vertex Ventures SEA & India

Rahul Thayyalamkandy joined the SEA/India team as the Director of Communication & Community in 2024 and is based in Singapore.

Before joining Vertex, Rahul served as a Product Manager at BLOCK71, an incubator and joint venture of NUS Enterprise and Singtel Innov8, where he developed scalable services for portfolio startups and designed mentorship programs. He also gained experience as a Summer Associate at Cocoon Capital, working with the Managing Partner on investment deals.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/rahulthayyalamkandy/

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Vertex Ventures Southeast Asia & India is a pioneer in investing in tech start-ups in this region and has helped to build a number of unicorns. In this podcast, we seek to share and uncover the Hard Truth - raw, unfiltered insights and venture capital knowledge from across Southeast Asia and India. Tune in to learn from leading founders, innovators, venture capitalists, and industry experts in the region and gain industry insights from those in the know.

If you like what you hear, please follow or subscribe to the show so you don’t miss out on any of our upcoming discussions.

—

Follow us to get notified whenever new episodes are shared.

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For more information, please visit: ⁠https://www.vertexventures.sg⁠

#Kiwifintech, #UPI, UPIcreditcard, #fintech, #LazyPay, #creditcardIndia, #RBI, #cashback, #Cred, #PhonePe, #founder

How do VCs pick that one billion-dollar startup… before the world sees it?

I sat down with Kee Lock, a veteran venture capitalist who’s spent decades backing founders, navigating failures, and building companies from zero to exit. We unpack his real playbook—from sourcing deals and spotting great founders to surviving the brutal 0→1 and 10→100M growth journey in venture capital.

He shares how pattern recognition is built, why most investors get market size wrong, and the subtle red flags that instantly kill a startup pitch.

If you’re curious about startup investing, venture capital strategy, fundraising, and what actually makes a founder worth betting on—this one’s packed with insights you won’t hear elsewhere.

IN THIS EPISODE

00:30 | How VCs find winning startups (and how you get noticed)

01:30 | The exact checklist before investing in any startup

02:05 | 4 ways top VCs discover breakout founders

06:50 | Early mistakes that cost investors millions

07:58 | How VCs build “gut instinct” for great startups

08:45 | The 3 filters every VC uses before investing

09:52 | Why judging founders is harder than you think

15:20 | Red flags that instantly kill a startup pitch

16:54 | How to judge if your market is actually big

22:47 | How VCs actually help startups grow (beyond money)

33:32 | When and how VCs decide to exit

42:47 | Why VC training is like flying a fighter jet

Kee Lock CHUA

Mr Chua Kee Lock is the Group President / CEO of Vertex Holdings (“VH”), a Singapore-headquartered venture capital investment holding company. VH is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Temasek.

Vertex Group is a global venture capital network comprising 5 early-stage technology-focused funds (Vertex Ventures China, Vertex Ventures Israel, Vertex Ventures US, Vertex Ventures SEA & India, Vertex Ventures Japan), an early-stage healthcare-focused fund (Vertex Ventures HC) and a growth-stage fund (Vertex Growth). Each of these funds is managed by independent and separate General Partnerships and investment teams, with VH providing anchor funding alongside significant 3rd party capital commitments. Vertex Group manages USD 6.8B in assets. Mr Chua is currently Managing Partner of Vertex Ventures SEA & India, as well as Chairman of Vertex Growth Fund.

Rahul Thayyalamkandy

Director of Comms & Community, Vertex Ventures SEA & India

Rahul Thayyalamkandy joined the SEA/India team as the Director of Communication & Community in 2024 and is based in Singapore.

Before joining Vertex, Rahul served as a Product Manager at BLOCK71, an incubator and joint venture of NUS Enterprise and Singtel Innov8, where he developed scalable services for portfolio startups and designed mentorship programs. He also gained experience as a Summer Associate at Cocoon Capital, working with the Managing Partner on investment deals.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/rahulthayyalamkandy/

—-

Vertex Ventures Southeast Asia & India is a pioneer in investing in tech start-ups in this region and has helped to build a number of unicorns. In this podcast, we seek to share and uncover the Hard Truth - raw, unfiltered insights and venture capital knowledge from across Southeast Asia and India. Tune in to learn from leading founders, innovators, venture capitalists, and industry experts in the region and gain industry insights from those in the know.

If you like what you hear, please follow or subscribe to the show so you don’t miss out on any of our upcoming discussions.

—

Follow us to get notified whenever new episodes are shared.

—

For more information, please visit: https://www.vertexventures.sg

#hardtruthsbyvertexventures #vertexventures #entrepreneurship #startups #venturecapital #vc #podcast #businessleaders