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We've done the finance of Industry, the finance of Succession, the finance of Belle Burden's Strangers — but we've never done the finance of CREATORS. So when Spotify invited us to their Investor Day, we knew we had to sit down and ask the question every aspiring musician, podcaster, and Instagram creator is obsessing over: in a world where everyone wants to be a creator, how does anyone actually get paid?

In this episode, we talk with Gustav Gyllenhammar, SVP of Markets and Subscriptions at Spotify, about the surprisingly complicated machinery behind every stream you play. Where does your $12.99 a month really go? How much does a million downloads of a song actually pay out? And how did a company born out of a piracy-ravaged Sweden convince an entire generation to start paying for something they'd grown up expecting for free? We get into the labels-versus-songwriters split, the rise of the independent artist, and the one number that explains why Spotify thinks it's playing a completely different game than the AI companies scraping the internet for content.

Which brings us to the real tension underneath it all: as LLMs hoover up the work of writers, musicians, and creators everywhere, who's building a model to actually compensate them — and is Spotify offering a better blueprint? We dig into Spotify's philosophy on AI, why they waited so long to touch it on the music side, what "Time Well Spent" means when every other platform is optimizing for your attention, and whether the creators who power these platforms are about to get boxed out of their own economy. Plus: the new Universal Music partnership, the audiobook feature Jen has been praying for, and why a direct listing might be the most underrated way to go public.

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