I sat down with Steve McAbee, and we talked about what happens when tragedy hits hard and faith gets tested.

Steve just got back from Kerrville, where on July 4, 2025, the Hill Country got hammered by historic flooding. The death toll was one hundred and thirty-seven. Many of them children. But what struck Steve wasn't just the tragedy — it was discovering that God was working in the middle of it. A couple stuck in their attic with water rising, praying, and a window that had never opened opens while they're praying. A couple floating down a river on a couch, rescued. These moments don't make the news. But they happened.

We got into the deeper things. The problem of pain. How a pastor sits with suffering instead of trying to fix it with answers. We talked about Job — suffering without deserving it. And we talked about something I think we need to hear: American Christians are comfortable. We're affluent. And we don't understand what it means to actually lose everything for your faith the way believers in other parts of the world do.

Steve also got real about the church. We've built this idea that we need to have it all together. We perform. We hide. And when people finally see who we actually are, they check out. He talked about seeing people not as image bearers of God, but as objects that get in our way. How we've built a culture that values accomplishments and what someone can do for us, instead of relationships. And he talked about something his dad taught him that I think applies to everything: control what you can control. Don't worry about changing the whole culture. Be faithful in your corner. Be present with the people in front of you.

Part 2 with Pastor Rodney Sprayberry picks up in the deep end and stays there.

Rodney and Chris work through the UFO and disclosure conversation — what to do when a congregant comes to you with an otherworldly encounter, why the church can't afford to be the last place people feel safe asking strange questions, and what it means that the Age of Disclosure is already underway whether the church is ready or not.

From there the conversation moves through the four theories of how the Nephilim survived the flood, why the surgical destruction of the Canaanites makes a lot more sense when you factor in DNA, and what it tells you about God that some of David's mighty men came from the giant clans and switched sides.

Rodney also weighs in on eschatology — not with a clean answer, but with the kind of honest wrestling that makes for good radio. He's fuzzy on the timing of the rapture, fuzzy on the millennium, and absolutely certain that American Christians have no business assuming they'll be the first generation in history to skip persecution.

The speed round includes Tertius — Paul's scribe in Romans who inserted himself into the letter and whose name literally means "three" because his mother apparently ran out of ideas — the Red Clay Strays, Stranger Things, and the hairy goat beings of Isaiah.

Also: Laodicea repented for 500 years, N.T. Wright doesn't believe in the rapture, and Psalm 22 is not what you think it is.

In Part 1 of this conversation, Chris sits down with Pastor Rodney Sprayberry of New Zion Baptist Church outside of Bonham, Texas — a pastor who has spent 32 years in ministry and the last decade realizing the Bible is a much stranger book than seminary led him to believe.

It starts with Bigfoot. Not as a joke, but as a genuine gateway into a conversation about the supernatural world the Bible describes and the church mostly ignores. Rodney traces his fascination with the unexplained back to childhood library books and a road in South Carolina called Latta Lights — and then forward to Michael Heiser, the divine council, and Deuteronomy 32:8-9.

From there, the conversation moves into the Tower of Babel, the sons of God, the Nephilim, and what it means that every major religious tradition in the world tells some version of the same story. Rodney makes the case that rationalism — not atheism — is the greatest threat to a biblical faith, because rationalism demands that the strange parts of Scripture fit into a neat category they were never meant to occupy.

As a hospice chaplain, Rodney has also seen things he can't explain — a grandfather clock that had never worked suddenly chiming eight times at the exact moment a patient died, a veteran who sat straight up in bed to say no before taking his last breath, and an aura he saw on a dying Native American shaman that opened a door to the gospel. He doesn't have categories for all of it. He's made peace with that.

Also in this episode: the divine council, Psalm 82, why Elohim is not a name, why angel is a job description and not a taxonomy, and why the under-40 crowd in his congregation is more ready for these conversations than anyone gives them credit for.