Lior Hadashian, co-founder and CTO of Gavra Games, joins Yuri and Amit to talk about building and shipping Warriors Rise to Glory — a turn-based gladiator fighting game inspired by a goofy Flash game from the internet's ugly years. What followed was five years of bootstrap chaos: a Bilibili influencer blowing up the game overnight, a Chinese localization done in one week, a main font that turned out to be stolen, two appearances on Israeli Shark Tank, and a mobile pivot that never happened.

They also go deep on the realities of indie investment — what it actually means to raise money, why turning down $130k on live television was the right call, and what "alive but not kicking" looks like for a studio winding down.

The back half gets technical: Unity version upgrades and why they break in exactly three places every time, Google's ongoing war with Unity Package Manager, and Amit's experience upgrading a 4-year production project to Unity 6.3.

Lior is working on something new. He won't say what it is. He's on Unity 6.4.

Topics covered:

• Warriors Rise to Glory — the game, the inspiration, the Venn diagram problem of turn-based fighting games
• Launching on Steam without localization infrastructure, then scrambling to add 10 languages
• How a BiliBili influencer caused a Chinese localization crisis in week one of early access
• The font that was illegal (and why you can't just pay for it)
• Israeli Shark Tank — declining the first deal, coming back with receipts, and closing the second
• What $40k of initial investment and $257k in gross revenue actually gets you
• Why going mobile fell apart (the chicken-and-egg problem of mobile talent and capital)
• Unity upgrade pain: asset bundles, TextMesh Pro, shaders, and Google's UPM situation
• Swap Heroes — Amit's game, go download it, leave a review (constructive preferred)
• "Your brain is the product"

Time Codes:

• 00:17 – Cold open: what are you playing
• 08:32 – Meet Lior / Warriors Rise to Glory
• 14:33 – The Venn diagram problem
• 15:13 – Localization: the full saga (BiliBili, 20% refunds, one week, illegal font)
• 37:36 – Shark Tank: twice, one rejection, one deal
• 47:52 – The numbers, the aftermath, the pizza
• 1:00:00 – Mobile, burnout, and the end of Gavra Games
• 1:05:37 – Unity upgrades: what always breaks
• 1:15:23 – What's next

Guest: Lior Hadashian

Karlo Kilayko has been making games since before most of us knew what a game engine was - literally. From programming a CD-ROM murder mystery in C with one reference book and no internet, to shipping 30 mobile games a year across 382 devices at THQ, to becoming one of Unity's earliest professional users, Karlo has lived through just about every era of this industry.

We talk about what it was actually like to break into game dev in the 1980s, the brutal carrier-controlled mobile landscape before the iPhone rewrote the rules, and why the Nokia N-Gage might be worth more on eBay than you'd think. We also get into the conversation that doesn't go away: AI, what it can actually do for developers today, and the question nobody seems to have an answer for - where do juniors gain the foundational experience they need to use it effectively?

The second half turns toward shipping - or more honestly, the reasons people don't. The core philosophy, borrowed from a Trip Hawkins one-liner: you make zero billion dollars on games you don't ship.

We also cover object-oriented vs. data-oriented design, the game engine vs. game IDE distinction, clean code debates that get surprisingly personal, and how Unity's MCP limitations are affecting AI workflows right now.

Chapters:

• 00:00 - Introductions
• 00:32 - What we're playing
• 05:33 - Why people make things
• 09:35 - Breaking into game dev in the 80s
• 13:00 - Programming a CD-ROM murder mystery
• 17:15 - Data-oriented design, then and now
• 20:30 - ECS, composition, and Raylib
• 22:00 - Being an early Unity user
• 26:00 - Mobile games as business applications
• 31:00 - The Unity runtime fee debacle
• 34:00 - AI engines and the engine vs. IDE distinction
• 38:00 - Unity, MCP, and AI workflows
• 40:00 - AI amplifies what you already have
• 43:00 - Clean code debate
• 51:00 - Vim, terminals, and knowing the basics
• 55:00 - COBOL and legacy job security
• 1:03:00 - When designers use Cursor directly
• 1:05:00 - THQ Wireless: 30 games, 382 devices
• 1:09:00 - Nokia N-Gage and early mobile multiplayer
• 1:13:00 - Creative QA: elevators and microwaves
• 1:16:00 - Carriers, control, and the iPhone
• 1:19:00 - Better done than perfect
• 1:27:00 - The 90/90 rule and shipping frameworks
• 1:33:00 - Wrap-up

Guest:

Karlo Kilayko - game developer and producer.

In this episode, Yuri Sokolov and Amit Netanel talk about what AI is actually changing in software and game development - and what it is not. They dig into the difference between productive and destructive AI workflows, why experience still matters when using LLMs, and why most developers and companies still struggle with architecture, tooling, and learning the right lessons at the right time.

They also get into Unity’s recent AI announcements, MCP servers, world models like Genie 3, startup culture versus corporate bureaucracy, the culture around bad practices in gamedev, and how social media shapes shallow technical opinions. Toward the end, they circle back to Bethesda-style engine hacks, AI hype in the industry, and whether AI is really replacing developers or just reshaping the work.

Chapters:

• 00:00 - Will AI take our jobs?
• 00:15 - Waiting on AI
• 01:45 - Good vs bad AI workflows
• 04:02 - AI for real dev work
• 06:13 - CAD and deterministic thinking
• 09:54 - Players want fun
• 12:46 - DI vs singletons
• 14:13 - Learning architecture through pain
• 18:56 - Startup vs enterprise culture
• 21:00 - Growing company pains
• 23:48 - Low barrier engineering culture
• 30:11 - LinkedIn brain rot
• 32:13 - Bad gamedev takes
• 36:49 - Clickbait and shallow opinions
• 39:32 - Focus and empty calories
• 44:00 - Unity AI announcements
• 45:26 - Genie 3 and AI hype
• 50:19 - Unity MCP
• 55:31 - AI for investors
• 58:13 - Where AI actually helps
• 1:00:25 - Extreme AI game jam
• 1:02:51 - AI amplifies skill
• 1:05:29 - Prompting with constraints
• 1:08:43 - Debugging with AI
• 1:10:29 - Fallout 3 train hat
• 1:12:55 - Bethesda engine hacks
• 1:15:18 - Building while AI works
• 1:17:59 - AI changes the work
• 1:19:01 - Is programming dead?
• 1:21:51 - Build vs buy
• 1:23:31 - SaaS needs real value
• 1:26:27 - Losing knowledge to AI
• 1:28:07 - Seniors using AI badly
• 1:30:24 - Could AI replace devs?
• 1:31:50 - Layoffs and AI optics
• 1:33:35 - Unity promises
• 1:35:47 - Wrap-up

The conversation begins with an introduction to podcasting and transitions into a discussion on gacha game development challenges. It then explores the influence of existing games on new game development, highlighting the impact of popular games on the development of new titles. The conversation delves into the world of game development, exploring topics such as linear storytelling, user experience, technical challenges, data analytics, player decision tracking, preservation of classic games, and parental controls. The speakers share insights on game design practices, optimization, and the impact of player feedback on game development. They also discuss the importance of preserving classic games and the challenges of parental controls in regulating child access to games.

Takeaways

• Gacha game development challenges
• Influence of existing games on new game development
• Game development practices
• User experience in game design

Chapters

• 00:00 Influence of Existing Games on New Game Development
• 38:45 Game Design and Linear Storytelling
• 45:28 Optimization and Technical Challenges in Game Development
• 51:27 Player Decision Tracking and Game Endings
• 01:05:37 Parental Controls and Child Access to Games