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(REPRISE) Ken welcomes back to the podcast the originator of the hashtag that launched a movement: #exvangelical, Blake Chastain. They discuss his new book, Exvangelical and Beyond: How American Christianity Went Radical and the Movement Fighting Back. An undergraduate at an evangelical university in Central Indiana, Blake had questions - about the Bible, the exclusive truth claims, the identification with conservative politics, the indifference to Earth care, to race, to social justice, and finally, the full-on embrace of MAGA Trumpism. It was a crisis of faith. When his hashtag went viral, CBS called him for a life-changing interview. Blake started The Exvangelical Podcast. In a wide-ranging conversation, Ken and Blake explore the history of evangelicalism and the contributing factors that have led to the evangelicalism we know today. SHOW NOTES

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Originally Aired November 15, 2024

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REPRISE - When Ken researched his Bible School classmate, Melvin Warren, he stumbled across Dr. Curtis’ book. It referenced a familiar, legendary press conference. In 1970, at the famed Arch entrance at the Moody Bible Institute in Chicago, Melvin made a speech as the cameras rolled and journalists scribbled notes. He claimed that the school’s racism so marred his experience as a student that he tore up his diploma and tossed it into the trash. He made national news.

That incident not only drove Ken into a years-long quest to understand the dynamic of racism in his white evangelical church but it also played significantly into the doctoral dissertation of another Moody grad, Dr. Jesse Curtis. Dr. Curtis is now an assistant professor at Valparaiso University. Ken and Jesse compare notes on that momentous event. It prompted Ken’s Beached White Male journey. It also contributed to Dr. Curtis’ doctoral focus - now a book considered a “must-read” by both Jemar Tisby and Kristin Kobes du Mez. Ken and Jese discuss The Myth of Colorblind Christians: Evangelicals and White Supremacy in the Civil Rights Era.

Dr. Curtis covers the history of racism in the white evangelical church, going back to the Billy Graham era, when Howard Jones became the first African American evangelist on “The Team.” Jesse believes that the Church Growth Movement, founded by Donald McGavran, contributed to the segregation that was a feature in the explosive growth of the church at the turn of the century - including “ethnic” congregations and mega-churches. McGavran’s protege, C. Peter Wagner, added fuel to that dynamic. In their wide-ranging discussion, they talk about evangelical super-stars like Rick Warren and Bill Hybels as well as champions like Bill Pannell, Tom Skinner, and John Perkins. Curtis argues that the notion of “colorblind Christians” is a myth.

While he wrote some five years ago, the case is as relevant as ever. Just this week, in his inaugural address, the 47th President stated, “We will forge a society that is colorblind…” His supporters stood in enthusiastic applause. Ken and Jesse agree: this is not progress. SHOW NOTES

First Aired JAN 2025

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On this new episode of the Two Kens Podcast, Ken Fong and I sit down at a moment that feels like a hinge point in the American story. From the looming threat of a government shutdown to urgent debates over immigration reform and a President’s competency, we’re asking what kind of country we’re becoming—and who gets to shape that future.

We walk through the surprising political momentum we’re seeing in 2025, where Democrats have been quietly flipping seats and building toward what could be a transformative midterm election. At the same time, we wrestle with troubling rhetoric coming out of national leadership—language that blurs the line between faith and power, raising real concerns about pluralism, democracy, and the soul of the nation.

We also take an unflinching look at leadership itself—what we’re seeing, what we’re hearing, and what it may suggest about cognitive decline, communication, and the weight of age in high office. It’s not about cheap shots; it’s about clarity, responsibility, and truth.

We express our hope that the courts, the Constitution, and most importantly, the electorate still hold the line. The path forward is clear: pay attention, stay engaged, and make sure we all truly see what’s at stake.

SHOW NOTES | Ken’s Substack

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Become a Patron - Click on the link to learn how you can become a Patron of the show. Thank you!

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The Podcast Official Site: TheBeachedWhiteMale.com