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The promise was a more fair, efficient, and democratic hiring process. So why are ageism, gender bias, and racial inequality in the pipeline actually getting worse?

In this episode of The Human Code, Don Finley sits down with Shana Pederson — legal tech veteran, recruiter, and Fellow at For Humanity — to unpack what's really going wrong at the intersection of AI and hiring. They dig into the dead internet theory and its eerie parallel to today's job market, why the "human in the loop" is in the wrong place, and who gets left behind when the hiring process becomes a game only tech-savvy candidates can win.

Shana also shares hard-won practical advice for job seekers navigating this challenging landscape — including the one thing that's still working no matter how broken the tools are.

Table of Contents:

Introduction & Shana's Background — 0:00 Don welcomes Shana and she shares how her decades as a recruiter, combined with her work as a Fellow at For Humanity, shaped her interest in the ethics of AI and hiring.

Is AI a Net Benefit in Recruiting Right Now? — 2:25 Shana breaks down the original promise of AI as the "democratizer" of staffing, and why the reality has fallen short — largely because these tools were built on human data, complete with human bias.

The Dead Internet Theory Meets the Job Market — 6:39 Don introduces the dead internet theory — the idea that bots now outnumber real humans online — and Shana explains how that same dynamic has infected the hiring pipeline with ghost jobs, automated applications, and bot noise.

Who Gets Left Behind: The Socioeconomic Divide — 9:58 Playing the modern job search game requires tools, time, and tech skills. Shana warns that this creates a steep and largely invisible barrier for anyone who isn't senior-level, tech-adjacent, or financially able to pay for AI tools.

Your Network Is Still Your Net Worth — 12:49 Despite all the noise, 98% of the people Shana speaks with are finding jobs through their personal networks. Don and Shana explore why human relationships remain the most reliable path through a broken system.

The Gamification of Hiring & What It Costs Everyone — 16:47 When the process rewards game-players over great employees, everyone loses — candidates, hiring managers, and companies alike. Shana also discusses the impact on people with disabilities and neurodivergent job seekers.

Cognitive Bias, Emotional Intelligence & Building Better Tools — 22:26 The conversation turns to multi-stakeholder feedback, why we can't eliminate bias (but can recognize and mitigate it), and the very human challenge of hearing that your "baby" has flaws.

Practical Tips for Job Seekers Today — 27:48 Shana's top advice: lean into continuous learning (MIT's full catalog just went free), volunteer in your community, and don't be afraid to ask your network for help. She also offers a compassionate take on AI resistance and how to ease into it on your own terms.

Closing & For Humanity — 32:16 Shana shares how listeners can get involved with For Humanity — a global community working to build ethical, human-centered AI audit criteria.

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Hosted by Don Finley

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In this episode, Don Finley sits down with marketing strategist Adam Levin to explore what it really means to be authentic in a world increasingly driven by artificial intelligence. From brand voice and personal identity to parenting, entrepreneurship, and extreme ownership, this conversation is a fast-paced, no-BS dive into the fundamentals that will never go out of style — no matter how advanced the technology gets.

Whether you're a founder trying to find your voice, a marketer navigating the AI landscape, or just someone who wants to build deeper, more meaningful connections, this episode is for you.

Table of Contents

The AI vs. Authenticity Debate — 0:00 Don and Adam kick things off with the central tension of the episode: how do you stay authentic and human in a world obsessed with AI-generated content? Adam makes the case that real marketing requires real people.

What Does Authentic Brand Voice Actually Mean? — 6:30 Adam breaks down his approach as a market strategist — getting deep inside a founder's vision and translating it into a brand experience that resonates with customers.

AI as a Buyer: How the Web Is Changing — 2:26 Don raises a fascinating angle: as AI becomes the one browsing your website, what does that mean for how you present your business? Trust architecture takes center stage.

Using AI to Amplify Your Voice (Not Replace It) — 3:51 Don shares how he uses transcripts and AI tools to capture and preserve his natural speaking voice — rather than letting AI flatten it into generic content.

Personal Brand vs. Company Brand — 8:12 The guys explore the overlap and the difference between who you are as a person and what your business represents — and why founders often have to learn to separate the two.

The KFD Framework: Know, Feel, Do — 14:39 Adam introduces a powerful messaging framework: What do you want your audience to know, feel, and do? A simple but transformative lens for any brand communication.

The Fundamentals That Will Never Change — 18:13 Trust. Connection. Relationships. No matter how much technology evolves, Adam (at 61 years old) says these are the things that will always drive business and life.

Lessons from Parenting That Apply to Business — 11:13 Both Don and Adam draw parallels between raising kids and building a company — including the hard lesson of stepping back and letting go of your ego.

Telling Clients Their Baby Is Ugly — 20:52 A candid conversation about what it takes to deliver hard truths with honesty, humor, and care — and why the best consultants know how to walk that line.

Advice for the Next Generation Entering the Workforce — 22:44 Adam shares the career mindset he's instilled in his own kids: stop thinking about what the company can do for you, and start thinking about what you can do for the organization.

Extreme Ownership & Moving Forward — 24:37 Inspired by Jocko Willink's Extreme Ownership, Adam and Don wrap up with a reminder that owning your mistakes — without excuses — is one of the most powerful things you can do in business and in life.

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In this episode of The Human Code, Don Finley sits down with Jarod Bowersett — sales veteran, entrepreneur, and co-founder of HeyRafi — to explore the fascinating intersection of AI, sales, and what it means to be human in an era of rapid technological change.

Jarod shares hard-won lessons from 15 years of building high-ticket sales teams, why the "unsexy" fundamentals of sales still matter, and how AI voice agents are quietly transforming how businesses connect with prospects. The conversation expands into the future of SaaS, agentic commerce, the role of human relationships in enterprise deals, and a thought-provoking vision of what work — and life — might look like when AI handles the grind.

Whether you're a founder, a salesperson, or just someone trying to make sense of where technology is taking us, this episode is packed with candid insights and real-world perspective.

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Table of Contents

Introductions & Jared's Background — 0:00 Don welcomes Jarod and they kick off with Jarod's origin story: 15 years building sales teams and closing multi-million dollar deals, and what drew him to the messy, unsexy reality of high-ticket sales.

The Real Secret to Sales: Just Follow Up — 1:30 Jarod breaks down why relentless follow-up is the most underrated (and undervalued) skill in sales, and how figuring that out changed everything for him.

HeyRafi: AI That Makes Outbound Sales Calls — 3:02 An introduction to HeyRafi and what it actually means to replace a sales rep with an AI that calls, texts, and emails prospects at scale.

Will People Actually Talk to an AI? The Data Says Yes — 4:58 Jarod shares surprising data on how people respond to AI-driven outreach — and why most callers simply don't care if it's a robot, as long as it serves them well.

What Excites Jarod Most About AI in Sales — 8:28 The vision of a future where salespeople spend their entire day on quality discovery and demo calls — with AI handling all the prospecting grunt work.

Will Micro-SaaS Disappear? — 10:44 Jarod poses a friendly debate: does the rise of AI agents kill micro-SaaS products? Don shares why micro-SaaS may be the most vulnerable segment — and what larger platforms still have going for them.

The Shift from Per-Seat Licensing to Usage-Based Models — 12:47 Don points to Atlassian's declining enterprise seat sales and the broader trend toward compute- and outcome-based pricing. Jarod connects this to HeyRafi's own experiments with usage-based distribution.

Selling to Agents: The Future of B2B Discovery — 14:50 How do you sell a product when the buyer's first touchpoint is an AI agent doing comparison research? Don and Jarod explore what "agent-friendly" marketing might look like.

Human Relationships Still Win in High-Ticket Sales — 17:47 Despite all the automation, both agree: for seven- and eight-figure deals, the human element isn't going anywhere. Emotional connection, trust, and the ability to "shake a hand" still close contracts.

AI, Time, and the 50% Net Margin Future — 22:39 Jarod's personal take on what AI gives back most: time. He paints a picture of a near future where lean, AI-first companies run at 50%+ net margins with a fraction of today's headcount.

New Jobs We Can't Imagine Yet — 25:31 Don reflects on how "content creator" didn't exist when they were growing up — and asks what the next unimaginable job category will be as AI frees up human potential.

Entrepreneurship for Everyone & Sacred Economics — 26:15 A philosophical stretch: what if AI lowered the barriers to entrepreneurship so much that everyone could be a builder? Don references Sacred Economics and the idea that commoditized intelligence makes real-world, human experiences more valuable than ever.

Closing Thoughts: Be Curious — 30:09 Jarod leaves the audience with one simple piece of advice — and Don wraps up a wide-ranging, thought-provoking conversation.

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Hosted by Don Finley