In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin speaks with Dr. Lauren Macdonald, a clinical trial physician and psychedelic therapist, about the evolving role of community in psychedelic-assisted therapy.

Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-356/?ref=278

Lauren shares insights from her work at Imperial College London, where she contributed to research on psilocybin for anorexia and fibromyalgia, as well as DMT for treatment-resistant depression. She reflects on the limitations of purely individual therapeutic models and explores how group-based approaches can foster deeper healing through connection, shared experience, and what she describes as communitas.

The conversation also touches on the contrast between clinical and ceremonial settings, the role of group dynamics in emotional processing, and the challenges of access and affordability as psychedelic therapy expands.

Dr. Lauren Macdonald has a background in psychiatry, psychedelic-assisted therapy, and group retreat facilitation, working at the intersection of science, soul, and spirit. At the Centre for Psychedelic Research at Imperial College London, she has served as a clinical trial doctor and psychedelic therapist on studies exploring psilocybin for anorexia and fibromyalgia, and DMT for treatment-resistant depression.

Highlights:

• Psilocybin therapy in clinical research
• Limits of individual therapy models
• Why group work deepens healing
• Communitas and shared experience
• Bridging science and spirituality
• Psychedelics in palliative care
• Relational safety in altered states

Episode Links:

• Lauren Macdonald's Website
• The Reconnection: Women's Psilocybin and Somatic Retreats
• Bridging Worlds: 6-Month Training

Episode Sponsors:

• The Microdosing Practitioner Certification at Psychedelic Coaching Institute.
• The Practitioner Certification Program by Third Wave's Psychedelic Coaching Institute.
• Golden Rule - Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout

Disclaimer: This content is for educational, informational, and entertainment purposes only. We do not promote or encourage the illegal use of any controlled substances. Nothing said here is medical or legal advice. Always consult a qualified medical or mental health professional before making decisions related to your health. The views expressed herein belong to the speaker alone, and do not reflect the views of any other person, company, or organization.

Third Wave occasionally partners with or shares information about other people, companies, and/or providers. While we work hard to only share information about ethical and responsible third parties, we can't and don't control the behavior of, products and services offered by, or the statements made by people, companies, or providers other than Third Wave. Accordingly, we encourage you to research for yourself, and consult a medical, legal, or financial professional before making decisions in those areas. Third Wave isn't responsible for the statements, conduct, services, or products of third parties. If we share a coupon code, we may receive a commission from sales arising from customers who use our coupon code. No one is required to use our coupon codes.

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin speaks with David Adam Burns, a transformational coach, artist, and founder of The Mysteries, about what may be missing from today's psychedelic conversation.

Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-355/?ref=278

David challenges the emphasis on insight in psychedelic work, suggesting that deeper transformation comes through presence, healing, and embodied evolution. He outlines a framework for healing through integration, purification, and emotional "thawing," and explains why presence may be the most important skill for navigating psychedelic experiences.

They also explore myth and storytelling as tools for collective growth, including David's work with The Mysteries and Earthsong, a retelling of the Persephone myth, and discuss the role of community, leadership, and stewardship in shaping the future of psychedelics.

David Adam Burns is a transformational coach, artist, and facilitator devoted to helping human beings remember who they are. Since 2015, he has guided leaders through deep personal transformation in his one-on-one practice and co-founded The Mysteries, an artists' collective dedicated to expressing the ineffable through myth and performance.

Highlights:

• Why insight is often overvalued
• Healing as integration, purification, and thawing
• Presence as the core psychedelic skill
• Story and myth as collective technologies
• The role of community in transformation
• Why leadership determines long-term outcomes

Episode Links:

• David Adam Burns Website
• The Mysteries / Earthsong
• David on LinkedIn

Episode Sponsors:

• The Microdosing Practitioner Certification at Psychedelic Coaching Institute.
• The Practitioner Certification Program by Third Wave's Psychedelic Coaching Institute.
• Golden Rule - Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout

Disclaimer: This content is for educational, informational, and entertainment purposes only. We do not promote or encourage the illegal use of any controlled substances. Nothing said here is medical or legal advice. Always consult a qualified medical or mental health professional before making decisions related to your health. The views expressed herein belong to the speaker alone, and do not reflect the views of any other person, company, or organization.

Third Wave occasionally partners with or shares information about other people, companies, and/or providers. While we work hard to only share information about ethical and responsible third parties, we can't and don't control the behavior of, products and services offered by, or the statements made by people, companies, or providers other than Third Wave. Accordingly, we encourage you to research for yourself, and consult a medical, legal, or financial professional before making decisions in those areas. Third Wave isn't responsible for the statements, conduct, services, or products of third parties. If we share a coupon code, we may receive a commission from sales arising from customers who use our coupon code. No one is required to use our coupon codes.

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin speaks with Heather Smith, founder of The Moxie School and a certified Internal Family Systems (IFS) therapist, about the intersection of parts work and psychedelic healing.

Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-354/?ref=278

Heather explains how IFS offers a practical framework for working with what arises during psychedelic experiences. She describes IFS as an approach that helps people stay present with different parts of themselves, especially when difficult or unexpected material comes up.

The conversation explores how psychedelic experiences can bring awareness to underlying patterns and past experiences, and why that awareness on its own often doesn't lead to lasting change.

They also discuss common misconceptions about combining IFS with psychedelics, the role of preparation and integration, and how working directly with parts supports more stable change over time.

Highlights:

• Misconceptions about IFS in psychedelic work
• IFS as a mindset, not a method
• How psychedelics reveal internal parts
• Why insight alone isn't enough
• The unburdening process in healing
• Working with fear and difficult experiences
• Preparation and integration as core skills
• Practitioner integrity and embodied practice

Heather Smith is a visionary in the field of psychedelic healing, blending Internal Family Systems (IFS) therapy with expanded states of consciousness to catalyze deep transformation. A Certified IFS therapist, she has completed Levels 1–3 of training and served as a Program Assistant multiple times.

She is the founder of The Moxie School®, where she trains psychedelic facilitators in IFS-informed approaches and supports both personal and professional development through immersive training and retreat experiences.

Episode Links:

• The Moxie School
• How to Journey: An IFS Field Guide to Psychedelic Journeys

Episode Sponsors:

• The Microdosing Practitioner Certification at Psychedelic Coaching Institute.
• The Practitioner Certification Program by Third Wave's Psychedelic Coaching Institute.
• Golden Rule - Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout

Disclaimer: This content is for educational, informational, and entertainment purposes only. We do not promote or encourage the illegal use of any controlled substances. Nothing said here is medical or legal advice. Always consult a qualified medical or mental health professional before making decisions related to your health. The views expressed herein belong to the speaker alone, and do not reflect the views of any other person, company, or organization.

Third Wave occasionally partners with or shares information about other people, companies, and/or providers. While we work hard to only share information about ethical and responsible third parties, we can't and don't control the behavior of, products and services offered by, or the statements made by people, companies, or providers other than Third Wave. Accordingly, we encourage you to research for yourself, and consult a medical, legal, or financial professional before making decisions in those areas. Third Wave isn't responsible for the statements, conduct, services, or products of third parties. If we share a coupon code, we may receive a commission from sales arising from customers who use our coupon code. No one is required to use our coupon codes.

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin speaks with Kathryn L. Tucker, J.D., a leading civil rights attorney and advocate for end-of-life autonomy, about the legal effort to expand access to psilocybin-assisted therapy for patients facing serious illness.

Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-353/?ref=278

Kathryn shares how decades of work in right-to-die litigation led her to recognize a critical gap in palliative care, addressing psychological and existential suffering at the end of life. Drawing from emerging clinical research, she explains why psilocybin may offer meaningful relief for anxiety, depression, and distress in terminal patients.

The conversation explores the legal pathways being pursued to make this treatment accessible, including Right to Try laws, federal litigation with the DEA, and efforts to reschedule psilocybin. Kathryn also reflects on the broader cultural and ethical implications of allowing individuals greater choice in how they approach death.

Kathryn L. Tucker, JD, is a nationally recognized leader in advancing improved care for seriously ill and dying patients. She has held leadership roles across multiple nonprofit organizations, including the National Psychedelics Association, the End of Life Liberty Project, and Compassion & Choices. Tucker has litigated landmark cases before the U.S. Supreme Court, including Washington v. Glucksberg and Vacco v. Quill, and has played a key role in both end-of-life litigation and psychedelic policy advocacy.

Highlights:

• Right to Try laws explained
• Psilocybin as investigational medicine
• DEA barriers to patient access
• Litigation strategies for psychedelic access
• Rescheduling psilocybin efforts
• Palliative care gaps in mental suffering
• Legal vs underground psychedelic

Episode Links:

• National Psychedelics Association
• Kathryn's LinkedIn

Episode Sponsors:

• The Microdosing Practitioner Certification at Psychedelic Coaching Institute.
• The Practitioner Certification Program by Third Wave's Psychedelic Coaching Institute.
• Golden Rule - Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout

Disclaimer: This content is for educational, informational, and entertainment purposes only. We do not promote or encourage the illegal use of any controlled substances. Nothing said here is medical or legal advice. Always consult a qualified medical or mental health professional before making decisions related to your health. The views expressed herein belong to the speaker alone, and do not reflect the views of any other person, company, or organization.

Third Wave occasionally partners with or shares information about other people, companies, and/or providers. While we work hard to only share information about ethical and responsible third parties, we can't and don't control the behavior of, products and services offered by, or the statements made by people, companies, or providers other than Third Wave. Accordingly, we encourage you to research for yourself, and consult a medical, legal, or financial professional before making decisions in those areas. Third Wave isn't responsible for the statements, conduct, services, or products of third parties. If we share a coupon code, we may receive a commission from sales arising from customers who use our coupon code. No one is required to use our coupon codes.

Healing Before Leading: Psychedelics and Political Integrity

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin speaks with Laura Dunn, civil rights attorney and congressional candidate, about trauma, leadership, and the role of psychedelic healing.

Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-352/?ref=278

Laura shares how her work advocating for survivors led her to confront the deeper limitations of legal and institutional systems. While policy change can create meaningful protections, it often fails to address the underlying trauma individuals carry.

They explore how psychedelic experiences became part of her personal healing journey, and how that informs her approach to leadership, public service, and political integrity.

Laura Dunn is an award-winning civil rights attorney, former public school teacher, and congressional candidate in New York's 12th District. She helped shape Title IX protections, contributed to the Violence Against Women Act reauthorization, and founded SurvJustice, a nonprofit supporting survivors of sexual violence. Her work bridges advocacy, policy, and trauma-informed leadership.

Highlights:

• From survivor advocacy to policy reform
• Limits of legal systems in trauma healing
• Why leadership requires inner work
• Psychedelics as tools for self-awareness
• Breaking stigma in political leadership
• Bipartisan support for reform
• Veterans and policy momentum
• Trauma and leadership integrity
• A vision for conscious governance

Episode Links:

• Laura Dunn (Congress campaign Instagram)
• SurvJustice (founded by Laura Dunn)

Episode Sponsors:

• The Microdosing Practitioner Certification at Psychedelic Coaching Institute.
• The Practitioner Certification Program by Third Wave's Psychedelic Coaching Institute.
• Golden Rule - Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout

Disclaimer: This content is for educational, informational, and entertainment purposes only. We do not promote or encourage the illegal use of any controlled substances. Nothing said here is medical or legal advice. Always consult a qualified medical or mental health professional before making decisions related to your health. The views expressed herein belong to the speaker alone, and do not reflect the views of any other person, company, or organization.

Third Wave occasionally partners with or shares information about other people, companies, and/or providers. While we work hard to only share information about ethical and responsible third parties, we can't and don't control the behavior of, products and services offered by, or the statements made by people, companies, or providers other than Third Wave. Accordingly, we encourage you to research for yourself, and consult a medical, legal, or financial professional before making decisions in those areas. Third Wave isn't responsible for the statements, conduct, services, or products of third parties. If we share a coupon code, we may receive a commission from sales arising from customers who use our coupon code. No one is required to use our coupon codes.

Western Philosophy on Drugs: Consciousness, Dreams, and Reality

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin speaks with Dr. Justin Smith-Ruiu about how psychedelic experiences challenge long-standing assumptions about consciousness, perception, and reality.

Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-351/?ref=278

Justin explains how Western philosophy has historically privileged rational, sober, and waking states of mind, often dismissing dreams and altered states as unreliable. He explores how psychedelic experiences push against these assumptions, raising deeper questions about knowledge, language, and what counts as real.

The conversation also examines the tension between therapeutic and existential uses of psychedelics, and how medicalization may shape the cultural role these substances play moving forward.

Justin Smith-Ruiu is a professor of history and philosophy of science at the Université Paris Cité and author of On Drugs: Psychedelics, Philosophy, and the Nature of Reality. His work explores intellectual history, consciousness, and the limits of rational thought, and he writes regularly for Harper's, WIRED, and The New York Times.

Highlights:

• How philosophy excludes altered states
• Why dreams are dismissed as unreliable
• Psychedelics and limits of rationality
• Language and ineffability of experience
• Therapeutic vs existential frameworks
• Medicalization and cultural impact
• Philosophy beyond sober cognition

Episode Links:

• Justin Smith-Ruiu's website

Episode Sponsors:

• The Microdosing Practitioner Certification at Psychedelic Coaching Institute.
• The Practitioner Certification Program by Third Wave's Psychedelic Coaching Institute.
• Golden Rule - Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout

Disclaimer: This content is for educational, informational, and entertainment purposes only. We do not promote or encourage the illegal use of any controlled substances. Nothing said here is medical or legal advice. Always consult a qualified medical or mental health professional before making decisions related to your health. The views expressed herein belong to the speaker alone, and do not reflect the views of any other person, company, or organization.

Third Wave occasionally partners with or shares information about other people, companies, and/or providers. While we work hard to only share information about ethical and responsible third parties, we can't and don't control the behavior of, products and services offered by, or the statements made by people, companies, or providers other than Third Wave. Accordingly, we encourage you to research for yourself, and consult a medical, legal, or financial professional before making decisions in those areas. Third Wave isn't responsible for the statements, conduct, services, or products of third parties. If we share a coupon code, we may receive a commission from sales arising from customers who use our coupon code. No one is required to use our coupon codes.

Can Ketamine Help Benzodiazepine Withdrawal? - Melissa Bond & Dr. Amy de la Garza

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin speaks with Melissa Bond and Dr. Amy de la Garza about the hidden risks of benzodiazepines, the reality of dependency, and what recovery can require.

Find full show notes and links here: https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-350/?ref=278

Melissa shares her experience of becoming dependent on prescribed medication, and the physical and emotional challenges of withdrawal. Dr. de la Garza brings a clinical perspective, explaining how benzodiazepines affect the nervous system and why withdrawal can be prolonged and destabilizing.

The conversation also looks at where conventional care often falls short, and how more integrative approaches are beginning to emerge. This includes the use of low-dose ketamine as a potential tool to support the nervous system during withdrawal, particularly in more complex or prolonged cases.

Melissa Bond is a narrative journalist and poet. Her memoir Blood Orange Night, which chronicles her experience with benzodiazepine dependency, was published by Simon & Schuster and recognized by The New York Times as one of the best audiobooks of 2022. Her work has appeared on PBS, The New York Times Podcast, RadioWest, and TEDx. Dr. Amy de la Garza is a board-certified physician in Family and Addiction Medicine, a certified Functional Medicine practitioner, and co-founder of Nosis Health, a virtual outpatient addiction medicine platform. Her work integrates functional, lifestyle, and emerging therapies, including ketamine-assisted treatment, to support recovery.

Highlights:

• Melissa Bond's experience with benzodiazepine dependency and withdrawal
• How prescribed use can gradually lead to physical dependence
• Why benzodiazepine withdrawal can be prolonged and destabilizing
• The neurological effects of benzodiazepines on the nervous system
• Gaps in conventional approaches to anxiety and addiction treatment
• The role of functional and lifestyle medicine in recovery
• How low-dose ketamine is being explored to support withdrawal
• What a more integrative, whole-person model of care can look like

Episode Links:

• Melissa's memoir, "Blood Orange Night"
• Dr. Amy de la Garza's Website
• Nosis.health

Episode Sponsors:

• The Microdosing Practitioner Certification at Psychedelic Coaching Institute.
• The Practitioner Certification Program by Third Wave's Psychedelic Coaching Institute.
• Golden Rule - Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout

Disclaimer: This content is for educational, informational, and entertainment purposes only. We do not promote or encourage the illegal use of any controlled substances. Nothing said here is medical or legal advice. Always consult a qualified medical or mental health professional before making decisions related to your health. The views expressed herein belong to the speaker alone, and do not reflect the views of any other person, company, or organization.

Third Wave occasionally partners with or shares information about other people, companies, and/or providers. While we work hard to only share information about ethical and responsible third parties, we can't and don't control the behavior of, products and services offered by, or the statements made by people, companies, or providers other than Third Wave. Accordingly, we encourage you to research for yourself, and consult a medical, legal, or financial professional before making decisions in those areas. Third Wave isn't responsible for the statements, conduct, services, or products of third parties. If we share a coupon code, we may receive a commission from sales arising from customers who use our coupon code. No one is required to use our coupon codes.

In this episode of The Psychedelic Podcast, Paul F. Austin speaks with a molecular geneticist exploring what it could look like to rethink how psychedelic medicines are sourced at a fundamental level.

Find full show notes and links here:
https://thethirdwave.co/podcast/episode-349/?ref=278

Jeffrey Gerst explains how his work in RNA biology and gene expression has led him to explore bioengineering as a way to produce psychedelic compounds without relying on wild harvesting or traditional chemical synthesis.

The conversation looks at how cells organize and communicate, and how those same biological principles could be used to create more sustainable and scalable systems for medicine production. Paul and Jeff also reflect on the broader implications of this shift, from environmental stewardship to the long-term integrity of the psychedelic ecosystem.

Professor Jeffrey Gerst is a molecular geneticist and Full Professor at the Weizmann Institute of Science, where he studies how cells regulate gene expression through RNA trafficking and localized protein synthesis.

His research has advanced understanding of how mRNA moves within and between cells, revealing new forms of cellular communication and potential applications in therapeutic delivery. More recently, his work has expanded into the bioengineering of psychedelic compounds, with a focus on developing sustainable, scalable, and ethical methods of production.

Highlights:

• Why sourcing is becoming a central challenge in psychedelics
• Bioengineering as a scalable alternative to wild harvesting
• How RNA biology informs new approaches to medicine production
• The limits of "natural" when demand increases
• Environmental risks of large-scale psychedelic use
• How yeast and cells can produce psychedelic compounds
• Balancing biotechnology with traditional practices
• What sustainable access could look like in the future
• The evolving relationship between science and psychedelics

Episode Links:

• Prof. Jeffrey Gerst - Academic Profile (Weizmann Institute)
• Prof. Jeffrey Gerst - Metaformity (Project / Initiative)

Episode Sponsors:

• Psychedelic Coacing Institute's Intensive for Psychedelic Professionals in Costa Rica - a transformative retreat for personal and professional growth.
• The Microdosing Practitioner Certification at Psychedelic Coaching Institute.
• The Practitioner Certification Program by Third Wave's Psychedelic Coaching Institute.
• Golden Rule - Get a lifetime discount of 10% with code THIRDWAVE at checkout

  Disclaimer: This content is for educational, informational, and entertainment purposes only. We do not promote or encourage the illegal use of any controlled substances. Nothing said here is medical or legal advice. Always consult a qualified medical or mental health professional before making decisions related to your health. The views expressed herein belong to the speaker alone, and do not reflect the views of any other person, company, or organization.

  Third Wave occasionally partners with or shares information about other people, companies, and/or providers. While we work hard to only share information about ethical and responsible third parties, we can't and don't control the behavior of, products and services offered by, or the statements made by people, companies, or providers other than Third Wave. Accordingly, we encourage you to research for yourself, and consult a medical, legal, or financial professional before making decisions in those areas. Third Wave isn't responsible for the statements, conduct, services, or products of third parties. If we share a coupon code, we may receive a commission from sales arising from customers who use our coupon code. No one is required to use our coupon codes.