Many might think the hardest part of community conflict is finding the “right” solution. What if it’s often something deeper: listening well enough that a solution can even appear?

We’re fresh off the Murray River / Dungala here in Robinvale, Victoria, as our first Confluence journey winds up. And a bloke who came up a bit during a transformative week of paddling, firesides and other yarns was Jeff Goebel.

So while we gently come back to machines, here’s the last 20 minutes or so of my first conversation with Jeff, online, ahead of meeting and witnessing his alchemical facilitation processes in person over in New Mexico. It drifts from the nature of his work, to a pivotal encounter with a glacier, on to how this work is spreading, how the uncanny tends to follow it, and perhaps even how it can help with this and other Rivers.

Welcome to the 10th instalment of Vignettes from the Source, the short form series featuring some of the unforgettable, transformative and often inexplicable moments my guests have shared over the years. Indeed, again, this one hits all three of those marks, and has come up often since the episode was aired.

This was part of the introduction to that episode: ‘Jeff Goebel became a Holistic Management trainer with Allan Savory in the mid-80s. But pretty soon felt it was missing something, as did Allan. Then a series of uncanny events and outstanding successes in Jeff’s life, including a pivotal experience with First Nations, set him on a path of what he calls community consensus work. He is now globally renowned for developing a highly effective program of respectful listening, visioning, and planning that attains 100% consensus - and commitment - of all parties, in all sorts of contexts. And often where human conflict and land degradation are at their worst.’

If you’d like to hear or revisit the conversation in full, head to episode 185 – "Achieving Consensus and Commitment to do the ‘Impossible’".

If this resonates, subscribe, share the episode with someone navigating a hard conflict, and leave us a review with the biggest “impossible” challenge you want to tackle next.

Chapter markers & transcript.

Originally recorded 8 December and released 12 December 2023.

Title image supplied.

Music:

Outro music by Jeremiah Johnson.

Regeneration, by Amelia Barden.

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The RegenNarration is independent, ad-free and freely available, thanks to the generous support of listeners like you. Please consider becoming a paid subscriber to help keep the show on the road, and gain access to a great community and some exclusive benefits - on Patreon or Substack (where you'll also find my writing).

You can also donate directly via the website (avoiding fees) or PayPal.

I hope to see you at an event, and even The RegenNarration shop. And thanks for sharing!

Last week’s very special guest was legendary rancher from Chihuahua, Mexico, Alejandro Carrillo. The episode was titled Re-Greening the Largest Hot Desert in North America with Donkeys, Love & Water. In doing that, Alejandro says donkeys have been a ‘secret weapon’. Sound familiar? That’s what Chris Henggeler at Kachana Station has been arguing is the backbone of the extraordinary regeneration he’s managed in the Kimberley region of Western Australia – similarly from dust and rock, to rehydrated soils and grasslands; and similarly, still getting better year on year.

Indeed, Alejandro visited Kachana on his Australian tour recently, and was blown away. But the WA government still intends to have Kachana’s donkeys shot by August.

Tellingly, Alejandro, too, used to kill donkeys as pests, then realised the grave mistake, and lost opportunity, especially with so many landscape, climate and biodiversity challenges right now.

This excerpt from last week’s episode felt worth highlighting as a release on its own this week, given the urgency and importance of what's playing out at Kachana, and given the opportunity this presents further afield.

It starts with Alejandro’s Kachana visit, leading to a fascinating exchange featuring some of the latest research and his successes in landscape regeneration, improved livestock outcomes, and wildfire suppression (growing more grass, not less!) - all with donkeys at the heart of things. And it sums with Alejandro’s proposal for the WA government right now.

If you care about holistic management, soil health, fire risk, and practical regeneration, hit play, subscribe, share the show, and leave a review so more people can find these ideas.

And if you've not yet heard the conversation in full, you can head to episode 296 here (with some photos) or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Chapter markers & transcript.

Recorded 9 March 2026.

Title slide: pride of place on Alejandro’s Christmas card last year.

Music: Working the Fields, by Falconer (from Artlist).

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Support the show

The RegenNarration is independent, ad-free and freely available, thanks to the generous support of listeners like you. Please consider becoming a paid subscriber to help keep the show on the road, and gain access to a great community and some exclusive benefits - on Patreon or Substack (where you'll also find my writing).

You can also donate directly via the website (avoiding fees) or PayPal.

I hope to see you at an event, and even The RegenNarration shop. And thanks for sharing!

The Chihuahuan desert could sound like a place you endure, not a place you regenerate, yet Alejandro Carrillo has seen grasslands, birds and beauty take the place of erosion and rocks on the family’s Las Damas Ranch. Conservation organisations now seek this ranch out. And the broader region is now regarded as a regenerative hotspot.

Here we unpack how livestock management, a lineage of too-little-known Mexican legends going back to the beginning of holistic management in the Americas, and a repaired water cycle have “rewatered” country that averages about 230ml of rain and has no rivers, streams or springs.

Along the way, we compare lessons from Mexico, the western US, and Australia, including what Alejandro noticed on his visit to Kachana Station and why a helicopter view made management differences impossible to ignore. And speaking of Kachana, Alejandro calls donkeys a 'secret weapon', and has a suggestion for the WA government as another alternative to its donkey shoot order.

And, of course, we talk about Alejandro’s journey. Far from smooth sailing, we explore the many transformations, stumbles and reasons for his story to never to have happened this way – starting with his father encouraging him to study whatever he wanted, so long as it wasn’t ranching.

Alejandro is loaded with fascinating insights, and also elaborates here on why he still feels optimistic. Though there is more he'd like to see happen. I hope you enjoy the listen.

Chapter markers & transcript.

Recorded 9 March 2026.

Title image: the quintessential shot of Alejandro on horseback (inset: as a 7 year old).

See more photos on the episode web page, and for more behind the scenes, become a supporting listener below.

Join us at the next Grounded Festival in April (10% discount for paid subscribers).

Music:

Working the Fields, by Falconer (from Artlist).

Regeneration, by Amelia Barden.

Send us Fan Mail

Support the show

The RegenNarration is independent, ad-free and freely available, thanks to the generous support of listeners like you. Please consider becoming a paid subscriber to help keep the show on the road, and gain access to a great community and some exclusive benefits - on Patreon or Substack (where you'll also find my writing).

You can also donate directly via the website (avoiding fees) or PayPal.

I hope to see you at an event, and even The RegenNarration shop. And thanks for sharing!