In this episode of the Untidy Faith Podcast, I sit down with Elizabeth Berget, author of Love Like a Mother, for a conversation about what happens when we take maternal metaphors for God as seriously as paternal ones—and why the church’s exclusion of feminine language for God isn’t just theologically incomplete but leaves women spiritually homeless in motherhood.

Topics Covered

* What gets quietly excluded when “God the Father” is our only or primary image

* How the Hebrew word for God’s compassion (rachum) in Exodus 34:6—God’s first self-description—is tied to the word for womb (rechem)

* How motherhood becomes a spiritual desert when your brain changes more than any other point in life (including puberty) but nobody tells you to expect your faith to change, and churches assume laziness instead of recognizing you’re doing a lot

* The disconnect between how motherhood is emphasized in church circles but under-resourced spiritually

* What’s at stake if we keep handing people a God who can only be described in paternal terms

Timestamps:

01:00 What We Describe and Exclude with “God the Father”

06:00 All God Language Is Metaphor (We Forgot That)

10:00 Why Motherhood Feels Like a Spiritual Desert

16:00 Rachum: God’s Maternal Compassion Lost in Translation

23:00 Embodied Verbs and the Incarnational God

29:00 What Spiritual Formation Actually Looks Like for Mothers

35:00 What’s at Stake When We Exclude Feminine Language

37:00 Finding the Book and Elizabeth’s Work

In this episode of the Untidy Faith Podcast, I sit down with Celeste Irwin for an honest conversation about what it’s like to be trans in Christian spaces—from childhood shame over “transy thoughts” with no language for them, to losing every friend when coming out, to discovering that transition feels like being literally raised to life.

Celeste Irwin is a transgender, lesbian woman and a survivor of a spiritually abusive evangelical church network. She’s written in-depth about her experiences in that network, and she now writes and speaks about issues affecting transgender people, including queer inclusion in Christian spaces.

Topics Covered

* Why even as a child Celeste knew “this is the thing I can’t confess”—different from sins you talk about in small group, this was something that would “really mess stuff up” if she stared at it too long

* The cost of exile like losing most friends when leaving evangelicalism, then losing the rest when coming out as trans

* What churches miss without trans people:

* Why queer exclusion is spiritual abuse

* The three things Celeste is tired of saying but will say for us anyway:

* How the movie Moana captures trans joy best

Timestamps:

02:00 Primary School “Transy Thoughts” and Unconfessable Shame

10:00 The Cost of Exile: Losing 20-Year Friendships

14:00 What the Church Loses Without the Trans Limb

22:00 Names, Identity, and “Your Identity Should Be in Christ”

28:00 Three Things Celeste Is Tired of Saying (But Will Say Again)

36:00 Why Becoming Affirming Requires Actual Repentance

40:00 What Intellectual Arguments Miss: The People

46:00 Trans Joy: Skirt Go Spinny and Te Fiti’s Heart Restored

54:00 What a Church That Genuinely Welcomes Trans People Looks Like

58:00 The Pride Month Challenge: Education Work Required

Links

https://www.celestefinally.com

https://www.youtube.com/@Celestial-Navigation

https://www.notovercome.org

Join me and Alisha Roth for a honest conversation about what it takes to leave a marriage when you’ve done everything “right”—the Christian college, the missionary training, the four daughters—and why the church’s fear and control around divorce leaves women trapped in unsafe situations.

Topics Covered

* The question that changed everything and why the answer unlocked self-love Alisha couldn’t access when it was just about her own safety

* Why “your husband has a right to your body” made it impossible to trust what her body already knew, and how one therapist naming abuse as abuse cracked open the church bubble keeping her trapped

* The stat the church doesn’t want you to know

* Why women who choose to leave face different judgment than women who get left

* What happened when Alisha’s therapist refused to tell her whether to get divorced—and why learning that taking ownership of your own life (instead of keeping everyone else happy) is the holy work

Timestamps:

01:00 When Everything Looks Right But Something’s Wrong

05:00 Having Someone Name the Abuse Changes Everything

10:00 Why the Church Blames Women Who Leave

15:00 Fear, Control, and Managing God’s Image

20:00 Finding Hope and Community After Loss

24:00 Why It Matters to Talk About Choosing to Leave

29:00 Taking Ownership: “I Have to Make This Decision”

32:00 Rebuilding Faith: Love Over Rules

35:00 Finding the Book and Alisha’s Work