In a time of "polycrisis" and systemic collapse, it is easy to feel unmoored by the intensity of the "slipstream". In this episode, Autumn Brown sits down with Zen Master and Native Hawaiian teacher Norma Wong to explore a different way of being. Together, they discuss the move from individual leadership to collective accompaniment, the importance of reconnecting to our "source ways," and how imagining a future is not a theoretical exercise but the necessary work of the present moment.

Grounding Practice

To help us settle into the space of this conversation, we begin with a musical grounding from Pax Ressler, a queer, non-binary artist, composer, and friend of The BTS Center. Their song, "Woven Together," is a sonic invitation to feel into the very interconnectedness—the kakou—that Norma Wong describes.

• The Practice: As you listen, allow the music to help you transition from the frantic "doingness" of your day into a state of presence. Let the lyrics remind you that we are part of a larger fabric of life, heart, and mind, woven into the future we are currently creating.

Key Themes and Conversations:

• Beyond Individual Leadership: Moving from the Western construct of the singular leader to kakou—an accumulated, experiential way of being in tangible cohesion with all beings.
• Accompaniment as a Natural State: Recognizing that our time is brief and shifting our daily behavior toward being a good guest and steward of the universe.
• The Slipstream and Systems Collapse: Understanding that in a "polycrisis," systems can only react rather than respond, necessitating a shift toward reconstituting human beingness at the community level.
• The "Source Way" vs. The "Cultural Way": Distinguishing between the cultural practices we can relearn and the deeper "source way" of being that ties us to all of indigeneity and to the earth itself.
• Imagination as Practical Work: Using storytelling and visioning to immediately implement the systems we will need, such as native plant nurseries for rebuilding after a disaster.
• Breathing as Community Practice: A grounding exercise in resonance and nervous system regulation.

Next Steps & Practice:

• The 80-10-10 Rule: Inspired by Sherri Mitchell's work, consider how you distribute your energy. Invest 10% in looking at what needs to change, 10% in holding back the tide of harm, and the final 80% in creating a reality that offers compassion, safety, equality, and sustainability for all.
• Practice Accompaniment: Identify a person or group in your community who needs presence rather than advice. Whether it is a family facing economic hardship or someone navigating a recent loss, let the relationship be the first response and let that connection guide what you do next.
• Ancestral Legacy: Reflect on what you are doing today that serves the "time beyond the collapse." How are you practicing being a good ancestor right now?

People and Resources Mentioned:

• Norma Wong, Zen Master, teacher, and author.
• Who We Are Becoming Matters by Norma Wong (North Atlantic Books, released Feb 2026).
• Pax Ressler, musician and composer of the song "Woven Together" featured in this episode.
• Sherri Mitchell, indigenous leader and attorney (referenced in the song and next steps).

Guest Bio: Norma Ryuko Kaweloku Wong Roshi is a Native Hawaiian and Haka Zen teacher. She serves as the Abbot of Enko Inn, an independent branch temple of Daihonzen Chozenji. An 86th-generation Zen Master, she has spent over 40 years applying Zen and indigenous values to transformational change. Her career has spanned community work, the Hawaii state legislature, and policy strategy, including leading negotiations over Native Hawaiian land and water rights . Today, she brings grounded wisdom to global ecological and spiritual crises.

Connect With Us:

We would love to hear what reflections are surfacing for you.

• Email: podcast@thebtscenter.org
• Voice Message: 207-200-6986
• Video: Find full-length video episodes and bonus clips on The BTS Center’s YouTube channel.

Blessing: May you be fed, may you be watered. May you grow towards the sun. Feel held in love, worthy of love.