When political tension, cultural upheaval, and congregational expectations collide, how can church leaders remain grounded? In this conversation, professor, consultant, and preacher Carlus Gupton shares what it means to lead with clarity, calm, and conviction in an age of polarization. Drawing from years of coaching ministers and teaching on systems theory, Gupton unpacks why leaders can’t stay ahead of every issue—but can cultivate a non-anxious presence, distinguish biblical principles from political strategies, and model healthier dialogue within their churches. He also discusses the pressures leaders feel to “say something,” the danger of off the cuff political commentary, and the formative power of civil conversation paired with shared missional work. Gupton also offers a hopeful reminder: the church’s witness—rooted in moral excellence, compassion, and spiritual formation—still has the power to bless a fractured world.Guest Bio

Carlus is from Mayfield, Kentucky. He began preaching at age 17 and has continued for over 45 years, broadening this work in 2001 to include training ministers. In addition to his current role as Professor and Director of the Doctor of Ministry, he is an interim minister, consultant, and coach, having served a few hundred churches for over 20 years. He has also taught at Harding School of Theology (2014-2021) and Johnson University (2001-2013). Teaching specialties include church leadership, spiritual formation, change, conflict, and biblical and theological studies. He also taught communication at the University of Tennessee (2001-2011). Carlus is also the founder and publisher of LifeandLeadership.com, a website with over 1,500 pages of resources for church leaders. I am partnered with a dedicated consortium of church consultants and coaches, Hope Network Ministries, who serve churches all over the world. He and his wife, Ann, have two grown daughters and two grandsons. Ann and Carlus live in Nashville, Tennessee.

Books Recommended or Mentioned

• Winsome Persuasion: Christian Influence in a Post-Christian World by Tim Muehlhoff and Richard Langer (2017)
• Winsome Conviction: Disagreeing Without Dividing the Church by Tim Muehlhoff and Richard Langer (2020)
• The Big Sort: Why the Clustering of Like-Minded American is Tearing Us Apart by Bill Bishop (2008)
• Dominion: How the Christian Revolution Remade the World by Tom Holland (2019)

EPISODE DESCRIPTION

What if the conflict in your church isn’t really about a person—but about the system everyone is part of? In this episode, Pat Bills and leadership coach Jon Mullican explore how anxiety moves through church systems, why certain patterns keep repeating, and what it takes for leaders to respond with clarity instead of reactivity. Jon draws from family systems theory to explain why removing a “problem person” rarely solves the deeper issue, how calm and connected leadership can shift the emotional climate, and why honest self-reflection is the starting point for healthier congregational life. A grounded, practical conversation for church leaders navigating tension, transition, or big decisions.

GUEST BIO

Jon is passionate about enhancing relationships within the church by facilitating authentic, open dialogue. He has a gift for discernment and listening in a way that allows people to be heard and understood, and provides opportunities for deep connection with God and with others. Jon has served two congregations as Executive Minister, one in Tulsa and one in Dallas. He coaches church leaders using the Enneagram and other assessments to support their personal growth and self-awareness. Jon earned a Bachelor of Science degree in chemistry from United States Naval Academy in 1985 and a Master of Science degree in Organization Development from Pepperdine University in 2005. In his free time, Jon enjoys spending time with his family, taking his wife out on dates, and making furniture from wood in his garage, when time permits. Jon and Dana have three grown children and two grandchildren.

Jon Recommends:

Books

• The Listening Life: Embracing Attentiveness in a World of Distraction by Adam McHugh
• Listening: Hearing the Heart by Robin Daniels

Movie

• The Tree of Life

Episode Description

What happens when a lifetime of ministry, responsibility, and relentless pace collides with the limits of the human body? In this powerful and deeply personal conversation, HOPE Network president Grady King recounts the life altering health crisis that left him in a medically induced coma, fighting sepsis, kidney failure, and multiple organ shutdowns. Doctors called his remarkable survival a miracle. In this episode Grady reflects on the emotional patterns, spiritual pressures, and family of origin dynamics that shaped his drive to keep pushing long after his body was begging him to stop. He also shares how his recovery reshaped his understanding of identity, rest, and spiritual health. Grady’s story is a powerful reminder that leadership begins not with doing, but with being rooted in God’s love. Whether you’re a minister, elder, nonprofit leader, or simply someone who struggles to slow down, this episode invites you to rethink what healthy leadership looks like — and to rediscover the peace that comes from leading out of abundance rather than exhaustion.

Guest Bio

Grady serves as President of HOPE Network. His ministry life spans fifty years with forty years in congregational ministry in Churches of Christ in Oklahoma and Texas. While with HOPE Network he served six years as director of church resources at Oklahoma Christian. His formal education includes degrees from Oklahoma Christian University (Bachelor of Science in Education); Abilene Christian University (Master of Science and Doctor of Ministry). His ministry passion is healthy leaders and healthy churches rooted in the gospel and missional life. He and his wife, Karen live in Irving, TX, and are members of the Mansfield Church of Christ. He enjoys reading, writing, sports, playing with grandchildren, and anything helpful for church leaders.

Recommended Books & Articles

For more on this topic, read Grady’s article on the HOPE Network Ministries blog. You can also catch more of Grady’s writings on Substack.