When political tension, cultural upheaval, and congregational expectations collide, how can church leaders remain grounded? In this conversation, professor, consultant, and preacher Carlus Gupton shares what it means to lead with clarity, calm, and conviction in an age of polarization. Drawing from years of coaching ministers and teaching on systems theory, Gupton unpacks why leaders can’t stay ahead of every issue—but can cultivate a non-anxious presence, distinguish biblical principles from political strategies, and model healthier dialogue within their churches. He also discusses the pressures leaders feel to “say something,” the danger of off the cuff political commentary, and the formative power of civil conversation paired with shared missional work. Gupton also offers a hopeful reminder: the church’s witness—rooted in moral excellence, compassion, and spiritual formation—still has the power to bless a fractured world.Guest Bio

Carlus is from Mayfield, Kentucky. He began preaching at age 17 and has continued for over 45 years, broadening this work in 2001 to include training ministers. In addition to his current role as Professor and Director of the Doctor of Ministry, he is an interim minister, consultant, and coach, having served a few hundred churches for over 20 years. He has also taught at Harding School of Theology (2014-2021) and Johnson University (2001-2013). Teaching specialties include church leadership, spiritual formation, change, conflict, and biblical and theological studies. He also taught communication at the University of Tennessee (2001-2011). Carlus is also the founder and publisher of LifeandLeadership.com, a website with over 1,500 pages of resources for church leaders. I am partnered with a dedicated consortium of church consultants and coaches, Hope Network Ministries, who serve churches all over the world. He and his wife, Ann, have two grown daughters and two grandsons. Ann and Carlus live in Nashville, Tennessee.

Books Recommended or Mentioned

• Winsome Persuasion: Christian Influence in a Post-Christian World by Tim Muehlhoff and Richard Langer (2017)
• Winsome Conviction: Disagreeing Without Dividing the Church by Tim Muehlhoff and Richard Langer (2020)
• The Big Sort: Why the Clustering of Like-Minded American is Tearing Us Apart by Bill Bishop (2008)
• Dominion: How the Christian Revolution Remade the World by Tom Holland (2019)

EPISODE DESCRIPTION

What if the conflict in your church isn’t really about a person—but about the system everyone is part of? In this episode, Pat Bills and leadership coach Jon Mullican explore how anxiety moves through church systems, why certain patterns keep repeating, and what it takes for leaders to respond with clarity instead of reactivity. Jon draws from family systems theory to explain why removing a “problem person” rarely solves the deeper issue, how calm and connected leadership can shift the emotional climate, and why honest self-reflection is the starting point for healthier congregational life. A grounded, practical conversation for church leaders navigating tension, transition, or big decisions.

GUEST BIO

Jon is passionate about enhancing relationships within the church by facilitating authentic, open dialogue. He has a gift for discernment and listening in a way that allows people to be heard and understood, and provides opportunities for deep connection with God and with others. Jon has served two congregations as Executive Minister, one in Tulsa and one in Dallas. He coaches church leaders using the Enneagram and other assessments to support their personal growth and self-awareness. Jon earned a Bachelor of Science degree in chemistry from United States Naval Academy in 1985 and a Master of Science degree in Organization Development from Pepperdine University in 2005. In his free time, Jon enjoys spending time with his family, taking his wife out on dates, and making furniture from wood in his garage, when time permits. Jon and Dana have three grown children and two grandchildren.

Jon Recommends:

Books

• The Listening Life: Embracing Attentiveness in a World of Distraction by Adam McHugh
• Listening: Hearing the Heart by Robin Daniels

Movie

• The Tree of Life

Episode Description

What happens when a lifetime of ministry, responsibility, and relentless pace collides with the limits of the human body? In this powerful and deeply personal conversation, HOPE Network president Grady King recounts the life altering health crisis that left him in a medically induced coma, fighting sepsis, kidney failure, and multiple organ shutdowns. Doctors called his remarkable survival a miracle. In this episode Grady reflects on the emotional patterns, spiritual pressures, and family of origin dynamics that shaped his drive to keep pushing long after his body was begging him to stop. He also shares how his recovery reshaped his understanding of identity, rest, and spiritual health. Grady’s story is a powerful reminder that leadership begins not with doing, but with being rooted in God’s love. Whether you’re a minister, elder, nonprofit leader, or simply someone who struggles to slow down, this episode invites you to rethink what healthy leadership looks like — and to rediscover the peace that comes from leading out of abundance rather than exhaustion.

Guest Bio

Grady serves as President of HOPE Network. His ministry life spans fifty years with forty years in congregational ministry in Churches of Christ in Oklahoma and Texas. While with HOPE Network he served six years as director of church resources at Oklahoma Christian. His formal education includes degrees from Oklahoma Christian University (Bachelor of Science in Education); Abilene Christian University (Master of Science and Doctor of Ministry). His ministry passion is healthy leaders and healthy churches rooted in the gospel and missional life. He and his wife, Karen live in Irving, TX, and are members of the Mansfield Church of Christ. He enjoys reading, writing, sports, playing with grandchildren, and anything helpful for church leaders.

Recommended Books & Articles

For more on this topic, read Grady’s article on the HOPE Network Ministries blog. You can also catch more of Grady’s writings on Substack.

What does strategic leadership look like in a church context? In this episode, Chris Goldman, Lead Pastor for Northwest Church (Lynnwood, WA) shares how vision, collaboration, and long‑term thinking shape healthy congregations. Chris shares how his ministry journey, including his training in business and marketing, have influenced the way he approaches organizational strategy in the church. He unpacks the difference between preaching and leading, why strategy can’t be crafted in isolation, and how ministers can build teams that think and plan beyond Sunday mornings. Chris also walks through the Northwest Church’s bold strategic shift: selling its campus, purchasing a vacant fitness gym, and transforming it into a community‑centered ministry hub. This is a practical and insightful conversation for leaders who want to think more clearly, plan more collaboratively, and guide their churches with purpose.

Jay Jarboe, one of our HOPE Network partners and a gifted encourager, joins us to share his wisdom on what makes a good leader, the importance of team leadership, and the power of coaching for church leaders and leadership teams. In this conversation, from our unpublished archives, Jay reminds us that leadership is not about heroic individuals but about communities shaped by Christ, working together in faith. Whether you’re a minister, elder, or simply seeking to grow in your discipleship, this episode offers encouragement and practical wisdom for the journey.

Books recommended in the episode: The COACH Model for Christian Leaders by Keith Webb, The Making of a Leader by J. Robert Clifton, and two books by Henri Nouwen: In the Name of Jesus and Can You Drink the Cup?

Jay Jarboe is the Director of the Emerging Leadership Initiative at Mission Resource Network (MRN), a global network with the vision to multiply healthy leaders to disciple the unreached and under-served people groups of the world. He is a coach and mentor for global leaders with a focus on equipping them to multiply healthy leaders for future generations. Before joining the ministry of MRN, Jay served with the Sunset Church of Christ and Sunset International Bible Institute (SIBI) in Lubbock, TX holding multiple leadership role with the church and the institute. He is married to Sherry, and they have two adult children and four grandchildren. Jay and Sherry were missionaries in Mexico City and now they work with global workers, leaders, and churches around the world. Jay’s passion is seeking to be transformed into the image of Christ and helping others in that same quest.

In today's episode, we’re diving into one of the most important topics for any thriving organization: building a diverse leadership team. For many churches, a lack of thriving may correspond to a lack of diverse voices in the leadership room. Having differing backgrounds, perspectives, and experiences isn’t just about representation. It’s about unlocking creativity, innovation, and resilience at every level of the organization. But this requires strategy, humility, and commitment. In this conversation with author and pastor Sean Palmer, we’ll explore how leaders can open up pathways for underrepresented voices and why diverse leadership is a game-changer for a church's impact. Whether you’re a paid or lay church leader, or simply passionate about inclusion, this discussion will give you fresh insights and practical steps to strengthen your leadership journey. You can read more about this in his article Leading a More Faithful Church: Why Diversity in Leadership Matters found on the Hope Network Ministries blog.

Sean Palmer is the author of Speaking by the Numbers: Enneagram Wisdom for Teachers, Pastors, and Communicators (IVP 2022), 40 Days on Being a Three (Enneagram Daily Reflections), and Unarmed Empire (Cascade 2017). With 24-years of ministry experience, Sean is a sought-after national keynote speaker, teacher, writer, and workshop facilitator. He is also the Teaching Pastor at Ecclesia Houston, one of America’s most innovative and vibrant multi-site churches, serving a predominance of Millennials and young adults. Sean studied Youth and Family Ministry at Abilene Christian University and Homiletics at the Austin Presbyterian Seminary, The Graduate School of Theology at Abilene Christian University, and Fuller Seminary. Sean and his wife, Rochelle, have been married for over 25-years and are parents to two adult daughters. You can connect with and learn more about Sean by checking out The Twists w/ Sean Palmer and www.seanisaacpalmer.com.

In today’s episode, we explore how churches can become communities that genuinely value and include all ages, especially children. Instead of building a child-centric church, Professor Shannon Rains argues for building awareness that pays attention to all voices: young and old, male and female, outgoing and introverted. The body of Christ is a place where every member ought to play an essential role, yet it requires hard work to shape a culture where every member actually means EVERY member. Shannon offers us practical wisdom on how ministers can patiently advocate for change and how congregations can move beyond token diversity toward true inclusion. Together, we’ll discuss practical ways leaders can nurture belonging, foster unity across generations, and reflect the richness of God’s kingdom in their communities of faith and practice.

Shannon joined the faculty at Lubbock Christian University in 2016 after fifteen years in church ministry, specializing in children and family ministry. She has an MS and DMin from Abilene Christian University in Spiritual Formation. Shannon is the Graduate Certificate in Children’s Ministry Coordinator at LCU. Shannon regularly mentors ministers and church leaders. She consults with churches, assists them in developing a cohesive vision of children’s ministry, and provides support with the search process. In addition, Shannon is a resource for churches seeking more inclusive practices for women and children and frequently writes on the public inclusion of women’s leadership and intergenerational worship. Shannon regularly writes a newsletter, “The Children’s Wing,” on all the topics discussed by church volunteers in the resource room of the children’s wing – which is never limited to only the children’s ministry.

Jim Martin is an encourager to the core and an extraordinary mentor. In this episode we get a peak at what makes Jim the kind of person you just want to be with. He starts by sharing the important role three mentors played in his life as he moved from being a spiritually disconnected business student to becoming a minister. Jim understands the symbiotic nature of intergenerational connections between older and younger ministers. It is a relationship in which older ministers can offer hope and perspective while younger ones bring fresh energy and insights. Listen in as Jim talks about maintaining pure intentions, keeping a focus on mission, and remembering the lasting impact paying attention can have in the life of a church leader.

Jim served as Vice-President of Harding School of Theology in Memphis, Tennessee from January 2014 – August 2024. Before that, he served as a preaching minister for 36 years, including the Crestview Church of Christ in Waco, Texas from 1993 – 2013. He has also served churches in Missouri and Alabama. He was reared in Dallas and received his M. Div from Abilene Christian University and the D. Min from Harding School of Theology in Memphis, Tennessee. Jim has led a number of mentoring groups for church leaders. Jim writes a newsletter, “Jim Martin’s Encouragement Note.” Jim is a certified coach (ACC) and is invested in coaching ministers and other church leaders. Jim is husband to Charlotte, father to Christine and Jamie, father-in-law to Calvin, and grandfather to Brody, Lincoln, Sully and Elsie.